cant stop superstar ground looping

Keep enough up-elevator in it to keep the rear wheel steering until you have
more airspeed.  Many taildraggers hae this problem.

--
Paul McIntosh
http://www.rc-bearings.com

On Sun, 23 May 2004 21:00:22 +0100, "Paul McIntosh"


Also, do not apply full power all at once.  Get the plane moving on
low power so that the rudder is affective then continue to ad more
power as the plane picks up speed..  You can then guide you plane
streight down the runway
good luck
Gene.

Also - check for "toe-out" on the main gear.  Not alot - just a tiny
bit.  If you check - I'll bet you dollars to donuts you have toe-in.
Regards,

On Sun, 23 May 2004 21:00:22 +0100, "Paul McIntosh"

On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:29:07 -0500, Charlie Wolf


Don't you mean the other way around?  A very slight Tow-In will get
the plane to steer back into a straight line.

Think of the plane rolling slightly to the left during take-off due to
"P" factor, or torque. More weight is now on the left wheel than the
right. Before you can get enough right rudder into the yaw it back on
line,  the plane will turn the direction the wheel is tracking. Tow in
will automatically track the plane back on line.

Contrary to what is said before, I like to not like to give up
elevator to get the tail wheel to stay on the ground, as it doesn't do
anything on the grass when the grass is much taller than the wheel. I
get the tail up and steer with the rudder on roll-out.

-Fritz

No, the first post was right, you want toe-out!

Only a small amount, about 1 degree is plenty once the slop in the wheel's
axle is taken into account. You can check this with two straight edges
placed against the rims of the wheels and extended out to the front of the
aircraft. Twist the wheels so it takes up the slack and you should get a
little more distance between the ends of the sticks compared to the distance
between the wheels. This might give up to 5 degrees at the other extreme as
the wheel is twisted the other way due to slop of the wheel on the axle. As
long as it is toe-out all the way it will be easier to taxi and control. If
the wheel centre is really sloppy change the wheels.

Try a google search on rec.aviation.homebuilt and probably several other
groups as this toe-in/toe-out has been done to death over the years.

Once the wing starts to tilt, you want the wheel that has a little contact
to pull the plane back to level. This will at least keep the plane flat on
the ground rather than with the wings tilted over at a wild angle. There is
no prop blast hitting the ailerons and they have almost no effect where the
rudder and elevator have a bit of prop blast giving them some effectiveness.

Don't give the motor fast changes in rpm, but let it wind up gradually. You
don't need to do short field takeoffs on most of the strips that you will
fly from until you have lots of experience. Remember you do not have
independent wheel brakes which are a luxury on a real plane that allow much
easier control on a taildragger. Most modern taildraggers that have a
tailwheel instead of a skid have brakes on the main wheels, where the early
models with skids could pull back on the elevator and slow the arse down by
dragging the skid. Think back to the WW1 aircraft that took off from a
paddock into the wind rather than modern runways that always have a bit of
crosswind. The main reason for having a tailwheel is so you don't wear out
the taxiway at the airport, rather than having to replace the end of the
skid occasionally. They can also give a great shower of sparks when landing
on a concrete runway..........

Just remember it takes a lot of praktis, praktis, praktis, beofre you get it
rite!

Hope this helps,
Peter

Use larger, softer tires.  Move the LG back.  Apply power slowly.  Use the
elevator yo keep the tail on the gorund until you build up plenty of speed.
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"

Aply full power and full up elevator to get plenty of wash over the rudder
and too keep te tail on the ground. Once you start moving, ease up on the
elevator and throttle or you will, depending on model, end up in a vertical
climb

     Welcome to the world of taildragging. Use some right rudder as
you open the throttle. Got to be proactive, here, and anticipate that
left-turning tendency when you open the throttle. Too much rudder will
make it turn right.
    Taildraggers are inherently unstable on the ground and are a lousy
way to learn to fly models and a great way to learn to fly full-scale.

   Dan

Nonsense!  A properly set-up taildragger is easy and a joy to take off and
land.  You have no worries about digging the nosegear in and constantly
realigning it.  The linkage is usually much simpler to set up on a taildragger.
 I fly a Fokker Dr. 1 (considered to be one of the worst ground-handling
planes), and have very few problems with it.


Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"

On 24 May 2004 16:30:19 GMT, dr1driver@aol.com (Dr1Driver) wrote:


Although it is entirely possible to make a taildragger handle nicely,
that does not change the fact that the design is inherently unstable.

The main gear is located in front of the CG, which will cause a turn
to generate forces that will want to tighten the turn.

Have you EVER seen a nose-wheeled plane ground loop? I have not.

--
Helge Wunderlich
Please remove obvious part of address to send mail

I never said I did.  However, I HAVE seen a firewall torn out when the novice
forgets to flare.  There are positives and negatives to both systems.  Neither
is "better" than the other.  It's all a matter of proper setup, practice and
personal opinion.  I strongly favor taildraggers myself.
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"

On 25 May 2004 00:17:49 GMT, dr1driver@aol.com (Dr1Driver) wrote:


I never said you said you did ;-)


Yes, it essentially boils down to personal taste.

However, Dan said that the taildragger design is an inherently
unstable design, and you called his statement nonsense. THAT is where
I disagree with you.

Dan is correct: The taildragger configuration IS inherently unstable,
and needs proper setup and practice to even work at all.

The nose gear design, on the other hand, is inherently stable. Just
gun the throttle and steer where you want to go. No need to worry
about rudder size, main gear location (within reason), toe in/toe out,
gentle use of throttle, proper use of elevator or any other details.

--
Helge Wunderlich
Please remove obvious part of address to send mail

Think Corvair ! with the engine slung behind the rear axle, and the
resulting oversteer is a tight turn.

In a taildragger you want to keep as much inertial mass *ahead* of the
axle as is practical. If the axle is too far forward, there's more
inertal mass behind the axle, which increases proneness to groundloop.
(Don't ask how i know.)

Bill(oc)  

I have seen "nose-wheeled planes" go all over the field trying to take off.
Most never make a ground loop because the first sharp turn jams the prop
into the runway and kills the engine. The same thing happens on rough
landings with trikes. The nose wheel creates so much drag on a grass runway
that much more power is required to attain to take off speed. This also
makes the plane much harder to keep straight down the runway. Most novices
show up with a trike because that's what the dealers sell. I guess the
manufacturers really believe that most of us fly off of a nice smooth
asphalt or concrete runway. That's certainly not the case around East Texas
where most of us have to fly off grass and not too smooth at that. Almost
everyone around here eventually converts to a tail dragger sooner or later.

Agreed!  Trikes are easy to take off but more difficult to land than a
taildragger.  That nosewheel hitting first... bounce, bounce, bounce...
Every model I have is a taildragger (even some that were supposed to be
trikes).

Morris

If you don't mind me butting in here, could you please explain what you mean by
a tail dragger?  That is, do you mean one that has a steerable tail wheel or
just a skid?

David

PS Is there any inherant problem with a steerable tail wheel instead of a
steerable front wheel?  Or is that  difference what this thread is about

Morris Lee wrote:

Yup.  Nose draggers have the steering up front where it can get broken.. .

Taildragger is otherwise known as "conventional" gear.  It can have a
tailwheel, skid, or any other device at the rear of the fuselage.  A plane with
a nosewheel is a "tricycle" gear.
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"

I like tail draggers cause I'm lazy and don't want to hook up the nose wheel!!!
 Less trouble for me.  Eddie Fulmer  

PS if you're landing on the nose wheel you ain't doing it right!!