cant stop superstar ground looping - Page 2

Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com (Dan Thomas) wrote in message
   Taildraggers are inherently unstable on the ground and are a lousy

Although it is entirely possible to make a taildragger handle nicely,
that does not change the fact that the design is inherently unstable

     Since when??????   Dont blame the taildragger.......blame the
operator.
All my models are taildraggers and i love em. Never had a problem
taxing or ROging. My simple advice for this: PRACTICE!!!

Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com (Dan Thomas) wrote in message

    Since When??????? Do not blame the taildragger.........but blame
the operator operating the taildragger. All my models are taildraggers
and I have no problems with them. So take some simple advice:
PRACTICE!!!!!

    Taildragging just make learning to fly models a bit harder. My son
started out with a trike, and then converted it to a taildragger whan
he got proficient with it. Now that's all he builds.
    Trikes have been around just about as long as taildraggers. The
first airplane ever to fly in Canada was a trike, in 1909.
Taildraggers were so popular for many years because of the rough
airfields available to pilots; many nosegear airplanes don't do so
well on such surfaces. Now we have stronger, better-designed
nosewheels that can take more abuse and are resistant to noseover.
      But I still prefer to fly taildraggers in my work and play. I'm
a flight instructor and aircraft mechanic; our students learn better
in taildraggers than trikes, but then flying full-scale for the first
time is easier than RCing for the first time, especially considering
the extensive ground training that takes place first. And things
happen more slowly.

     Dan

Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com (Dan Thomas) wrote in message

    I started with taildraggers and tried out one trike.....but I find
landing the trike in grass sucks. The front wheel will bite in the
grass and a nice landing turns into a backflip.....on a hard surface
its fine. My taildraggers I can ROG from grass with ease and land. As
for my trike......it has floats now and makes a nice little "pond
jumper"

     Mike

mikerenz66@netzero.net (Mike R.) wrote in message

     We teach a technique in full-scale called "soft/rough" takeoffs
and landings. I taught it to my son when he flew his RC trike, and he
had no more grass drag problems.
   On takeoff, full up-elevator is applied as the throttle is opened.
The nosewheel will come up if the airplane is set up properly, and the
pilot adjusts the elevator to keep the nosewheel just off the surface
as speed builds. This will require less and less elevator input. The
airplane will fly off when it's ready, without further nose-up (or
"rotation," as we call it) and
climbout is normal. In some cases the airplane can lift off at very
low speed, and after liftoff the airplane is held very low to the
ground in ground effect to build speed for the climb. If the airplane
has flaps, 10 or 20 degrees will aid greatly.
      A soft-field landing involves a low approach speed and a
nose-high touchdown using some power, After touchdown, the nose is
held off with the elevator while power is reduced gradually. The risk
of noseover goes way down using these techniques, and you'll be
surprised how short your airplane can take off using them.
  As I've said before, some private-pilot groundschool would make
better RC pilots. There's a whole world of information out there, and
it would be a great way to spend a few winter evenings. The applicable
subjects would be Principles of Flight, Weight and Balance, a bit of
Weather, and Maneuvers such as climbs, descents, turns, stalls, spins
and the rest of it. You wouldn't need Air Law, Navigation or the rest
of it. You can fly the airplane, but do you know WHY it behaves as it
does sometimes? And how to avoid doing that again?
   Problem is to find a school that doesn't charge so much.

    Dan

On 26 May 2004 07:21:10 -0700, Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com (Dan
Thomas) wrote:


For the price of an hour of rider-scale classroom time, one could take
SWMBO out for dinner and have enough left to snag a copy of "Stick And
Rudder".

      Take a trike and a taildragger and put them side by side....take
away there nose gear and tailwheel and leave the main gear, what do
you have????   A seesaw with the main gear acting as the fulcrum. So
setup is very important to both. Anyway, ground handling is important
but whats more important is the planes handling in the air. And that
nose gear = drag compared to the little tailwheel.

        Mike
        
   If you have retracts.....its a different story     ;-)

Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com says...


Although unstable on the ground, taildraggers are great fun and eminently
controllable with practice.  I trained on glow taildraggers (modified
Tucano OS52 4-stroke?) and have only had 3 tricycle u/c planes
(H/W Trainer and 2 lge Tucanos w 90 2-stroke) compared to 7+ 'draggers
(H/W trainer, 4 mid-wing sports (46 2-strokes), 3 R.O.G'ing electric
parkflyers: GWS Beaver, Kyosho Spree Sport, Wingdragon.  Tricycle u/c is
like driving a car - 'dragger is like flying a Spitfire (watch that
swing!).  You need a little toe-in for stability.  A steerable tailwheel
(attached to rudder) is nice but not always needed.  Start with a little
right rudder and up elevator (to avoid nose-over) as you overcome grass
resistance.  Throttle up gradually to minimise torque/swing effects.  Let
elevator go neutral as you build speed.  Small timely corrections with
rudder are important - so relax those thumbs.  Big late overcorrections
make ground loops.  The plane may lift off with neutral elevator...
otherwise apply gentle up.  It's also very important to take off and land
into the wind.

http://www.pipercubforum.com/topcub.htm -the pros and cons

"And then there is the dreaded TAILWHEEL! Can it be mastered? Will
the airplane willfully ground loop the instant it is untied? Can only
super-beings fly airplanes so equipped? What a crock!
We forget that the nosedragger, taildragger controversy didn't even exist
until the 152/172/Tri-Pacers became prevalent enough as trainers that a
generation of pilots was born with dead feet. Every pilot before them
just took the taildragger for granted. That's the way airplanes were, so
that's the way they flew them.
Today, there are enough tailwheel schools and instructors that getting
training isn't that difficult. Depending on the individual, figure about
six hours average to transition with another couple of hours of post-solo
dual spent working in nasty crosswinds as insurance. There is no magic to
the tailwheel. All it requires is some of the basic skills you were
supposed to develop in the first place and, once you've become
comfortable with the tailwheel, you'll discover an entire new world open
to you."
from http://www.airbum.com/articles/Article.BuyClassic.html



--
Mark Lee

   Toe-in will add instability in most taildraggers. As the swing
begins, the weight will shift toward the outside wheel, and if it's
toed inward the turn will tighten and increase the rate of swing.
Toeing the wheels out a bit can help reduce the instability, but the
best practice is no misalignment at all.
    I used to fly a Champ that had a misaligned left main. It was
turned in a bit, and the net result was some overall toe-in. I had to
touch down with the nose cocked left about three degrees to get the
line of travel symmetrically between the wheel tracklines so it
wouldn't leap to the right on touchdown and try to go squirreling off
the pavement. Even then I had to pay special attention to prevent ANY
swing. Grass was easier.
    Other Champs and Citabrias I have flown had their wheels properly
aligned and didn't have the bad behavior. The wheel alignment on the
old Champ oleo gear required bending the strut to straighten the wheel
so it often was left alone and tolerated. The newer machines have
spring gear and shims to adjust alignment. Misaligned gear on the big
Cessna taildraggers can be exciting indeed.
     Models usually just require bending some wire, but the slop in
the bearings and the easily-twisted wire can make the wheels do their
own thing anyway during ground ops.

      Dan

I've had two planes with this problem. One was a cub and I solved the
problem by setting up a "dual rate" rudder with very little throw. The other
was a three channel top flite elder. The rudder on this plane is so small
that it has not authority at slow speeds. I doubled the size of the rudder
and it did fine. It had problems landing because of the small rudder once
the plane slowed down to landing speeds the rudder was useless. Again this
was solved with the larger rudder.