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Electric starter power

I've often wondered about the comments about the seeming lack of power for various starters for turning over larger engines, such as 90's and

120's.

Now I know first-hand why the comments.

I needed a second starter that I could dedicate to my heli shaft adapter, and picked up a used Sullivan Deluxe Hi-Tork. I put the shaft adapter in my old Penford Autostart, and put the Sullivan in my plane fieldbox.

Today, I broke in a Magnum 91 FS. That Sullivan would NOT turn that Magnum over without help. I went and got the Penford - it turned the engine over quite smartly.

So, the Penford goes back in the plane fieldbox and the Sullivan will be relegated to starting the .32 in my heli !

In fact, the Penford will turn my Ryobi 31 over if I flip the prop once while engaging the starter - the Sullivan would not do the same with the Magnum 91 !

David

Reply to
David AMA40795 / KC5UH
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I think there are a lot more variables with these starter issues than people let on.

A friend of mine uses a Dynatron to start the OS 91 in his helicopter. Many times lately he has had trouble cranking the helicopter with his starter. It will either not get past the first compression or get a few and then not be able to get through any more. It is getting colder here too. When he needs it I bring my starter and battery over and it cranks his engine like it was a 46 and it usually starts almost immediately.

What is the difference? I too have a Dynatron. In my case I have a charged

18 AH battery that is connected to the starter via banana plugs. There is probably 8# or 10# wire connecting the battery to the plug receptacles. In his case he has battery clips connecting to a 7 - 10AH that he has charged. He thinks his battery may be getting old. My setup will easily crank my Saito 182, although you can tell that the starter is actually having to work for a living in this case.

So what is the point? I guess it is just that I imagine there are quite a few variables that are not mentioned or known when people comment on the troubles they are having with their starters. I personally cannot imagine that much current gets through battery clip type connectors. Obviously enough does most of the time since many people use that kind of a setup. I have had trouble jumping cars at times and I suspect that the trouble was that the edges of the clips could not carry the needed load. I expect that the cables themselves could since the wire size was quite large, being heavy duty cables.

Just my 0.02

Douglas Kaip

Reply to
Douglas Kaip

I bought a standard starter several years ago (forgot which brand, the label fell off some time ago). It worked great for a BB .46, but would not crank a friend's sleeved .46, or my .61. I got a 1/4" piece of copper plate from a supplier large enough to mill a 5" dia. flywheel. I mounted this on the back side of the drive socket. I just wind it up a bit before contacting the prop hub, even my twin cylinder 1.60 pops right over. I also use banana plug and a 14 Ahr battery. Large conductors make all the difference too. DC voltage drops rapidly in a short distance, especially with a high current draw from a starter.

One thing that will help a baulky starter is to prime the engine well by hand. The fuel and oil will lubricate the piston. Just be sure not to hydro-lock the engine with too much fuel.

Tom

Reply to
Tom Johnson

If the clips are clean, I don't think you should be having a problem. Most starters have thick enough wire to handle the current required.

I had problems cranking my engine (OS 70 four stroke) past the compression stroke with the usual hobby starter batteries that are sold for that purpose. Now I use a portable jump-start battery pack that is intended to be carried in the trunk of your car for emergency jumps. It has a small sealed lead-acid battery in a handy carrying case, plus includes a wall charger, and a 12 volt "lighter" socket plus a built in flashlight.

About 40 bucks at home depot in the tool dept., or at any automotive store. The case with handle make it easier to lug around than a battery alone. At the field I just clip my starter to the jumper leads, and it gives plenty of cranking power.

David

Reply to
David Clark

Reply to
Paintballmavin

I bought a project box from Radio Shack. Soldered together 12 C cell Ni-cads and stuffed them in. This is 14.4 volts. Bolted the mess to a Sullivan starter (Not a Dynatron, which I have two of). I charge it three times per flying season. It starts everything up to my Saito 1.5. Next step up is a Dynatron, for the Saito 1.5 and the Webra 1.2. Above that, I use a Dynatron with a BME 4:1 reduction on 24 Volts for the gassers.

I have a friend working on a holder that bolts to the bottom of a starter, uses two RC Car battery packs that slide into the end. Should be slick.

Reply to
me

You use 'em both at once, or what?

Texas Pete AMA 59376

Reply to
Pete Kerezman

I'm running a 14 cell 1700SCR pack on my Hanger 9 starter. Turns a

1.8 4C over nicely.

KSJ makes a battery holder for the car packs.

Reply to
Will Hicks

Yea. I have actually figured out how to gain a stroke by changing hands!

Reply to
me

Heard of Binford. Not sure I'd like one of _those_.

Never heard of Penford.

Cheers, Fred McClellan the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Reply to
Fred McClellan

Reply to
Jan Kolasa

Penford Autostart was, IIRC, the first commercially available electric starter. I got mine in 1973 - for something like $24.95 ! It was made from a Ford windshield wiper motor ( the Ford P/N was still visible on the housing! ) with a huge door-buzzer switch fastened to the side and connected to molded-pair wires that could double for auto jumper cables. The only problem I have with it is the cone is molded plastic which worked loose on the motor D-shaft over the years. I drilled and tapped a hole for a set screw, but cannot tighten it well enough for fear of stripping the plastic. Grabbing the drive cone and holding, it feels like nearly twice the torque of the Sullivan.

I've still got the orig>>

Reply to
David AMA40795 / KC5UH

I've never had problems with most of them, but I've seen the Sullivan Dynatron almost burn out trying to start a new DA 150 twin. Desert Aircraft doesn't recommend an electric starter, but the thing won't start hand cranking it; not without it broken in, anyway. Owners got a Miller reduction unit for the Dynatron--it starts now!

J.D. to e-mail, pull the post

Reply to
J.D.

I absolutely LOVE my Miller unit. It usually gets a real work out during the Big Bird events we have. I am working on a battery box with wheels and a telescoping handle like a suitcase to hold two 12V lead acid batteries. It will have a place to store the starter and a reel to keep the cord out of the way.

Reply to
me

Hmmm...hadn't thought of that; good idea. I'll have to tell the twins.

The DA-150 is in a giant scale Mustang. Can't wait to see it fly.

J.D. to e-mail, pull the post

Reply to
J.D.

I also use the Miller reduction drive on a dynatron....and yes...many a times it is loaned out to others at the field. Mine is powered by 2 hobby batteries....7 amp 12 volt wired in serfies for

24 volts. It's all held in a small wooden box with a carry handle so it goes out to the flight line easily. This system starts anything!!! Mitch
Reply to
MEpst22487

Where can I get the Miller reduction drive

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