A couple circuit breaker questions

1) I know you can only put two wires in a breaker that is designed for it; but do they say they can hold two, or do they say they can only hold one; which way does it work? If it can hold only one, I can just still use two circuits in one breaker with a jumper, can't I? (I have two outdoor outlets on their own circuits. One has never been used, and the other just has some low voltage lighting on it and a few christmas lights in season. Since I need some space in the panel, it seems reasonable to consolidate them. If I can't use the jumper, I guess I will just abandon the unused outlet; but that seems wrong somehow.)

2) Do GFCI breakers require power before you can set them on, like GFCI outlets? I have a circuit that is flaky, and everything but the GFCI breaker seems okay. When I swapped the breaker with a spare, it is okay, so I figure it must be the breaker. It will stay in the on position when disconnected; does that mean it is bad? The spare is 20a, and it should be

15a, so I need to buy a new one if the old 15a is broken. (I figure the chances of a 20a breaker being a fire hazzard on a lightly used #14 circuit for a few days is extremely small, no?)

Thanks.

Reply to
John
Loading thread data ...

It may or may not be obvious on the circuit breaker labling if it is listed for 2 wires. You can combine the two outdoor outlets on one circuit, but make a splice point, in a new junction box mounted in the joists above the panel. One wire from the junction box to each outlet and another from the breaker panel to the junction box.

GFCI must have power to trip and reset, they do not necessarily trip when power is removed.

In a few days, the likelyhood of a fire from your under protected branch circuit is remote. I'd hurry to the hardware store anyway.

Reply to
dummy

The only issue with putting more than one wire (or a very large wire) into a breaker is it will affect the trip time. The wire acts as a heat sink. The bigger the wire, the slower the breaker. Putting two #12 wires in a 20 amp breaker or 2 #14 in a 15 amp is not a problem. It may be against some local codes. Jumpering the one wire from the breaker to two circuits is not a big deal either. This would probably violate code though. The wiring areas for panels are not sized considering their use as a junction box, but one splice isn't going to hurt. If you make the splice outside the panel, there is no violation (unless of course you overload the circuit, but it doesn't seem likely from your description.

Reply to
jim

I thought it had to do with making contact with two wires at once rather than with just once.

The breaker in question, a 20a GFCI, says it can accept #8 wire, so it shouldn't have any heat problems with 2 #12s. Thank you.

Reply to
John

Yes. Typically a "1 or 2 wire" breaker will have a screw with a square washer and slots cut on both sides of the screw so it will pinch one or two wires equally. The screw itself has a ball shaped surface where it contacts the washer to allow it to get tight in a range of angles. They will be labeller "1-2" along with copper only or CU/AL. You need a microscope to read this label on any breakers I have seen.

Reply to
Gfretwell

Of the GFCI's I've seen, they mechanically latch/reset. So you can reset them with them in your hand (no power). If it won't reset in your hand, it is definitely bad.

They need power to trip/test, so it must be installed to 'test' the GFCI tripping. If you install it in the panel (and the 'pigtail' to the neutral bus), but leave the circuit 'hot' and 'neutral' wires off, it should not trip. If it keeps tripping then (with no downstream circuit connected), it must be bad. If it stays 'on' under those conditions, connect the circuit 'hot' and 'neutral'. If it keeps tripping and won't stay reset then (with circuit connected), you may have a ground on the circuit.

Some GFCI's will trip if the neutral is grounded downstream, others will not. Some have a 'signal generator' that puts a minute signal on the neutral (and hot) and looks for current flow downstream side of neutral, return through Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) back to neutral bus. Others (older??) don't have this feature.

So before you scrap it, be sure your circuit's neutral isn't connected to ground somewhere besides through the GFCI.

daestrom

Reply to
daestrom

I have replace it with a plain breaker and a GFCI breaker. Haven't had a nuisance trip in 3 days; however, maybe the old one looked for a the the neutral to ground connection and the new one doesn't. I will put it in another circuit to see if it fails there also. Thanks.

Reply to
John

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.