CON Ed - CONNING US with HIGH VOLTAGE!

CON Edison - CONNING US with HIGH VOLTAGE!

Shocking (literally) how this greedy utility monopoly and others like it get away with their screw-the-public practices. I've noticed that my light bulbs burn out faster than they should. I am an electronics engineer and have test equipment, so I measured the line voltage and found it to be high, 126 volts. When I enquired, CON Ed told me that up to 128 volts is acceptable.

NO, IT ISN'T!

This is 6.7% OVER the rated voltage (120 volts) for most light bulbs and appliances. As power is proportional to the voltage squared, this means that all our appliances are being force-fed about 14% more power than they were designed for. CON Ed of course does this to increase your monthly bill by up to 14% over what it would be at the optimum 120 volts.

But it costs us far more than this. With a 6.7% overvoltage a light bulb burns brighter but burns out much faster, lasting only half as long as it would at the rated voltage. Excessive voltage is harmful to and reduces the life of all appliances without regulated power supplies, which means most of them. Do you think CON Ed will take any responsibility when your expensive air conditioner fails prematurely? And of course all that unnecessary power generation is doing wonders with our resources and environment.

So we pay for this corpseration's arrogant greed not only with higher bills, but with reduced appliance life and even with reduced lifespans due to their pollution - or from the fact that a shock from 128 volts is more likely to kill you than one from 120 volts.

Don't look to government for help. The present administration couldn't care less about protecting consumers and the environment, and encourages corpserate monopolies like CON Ed to soak us for all they can and poison our air and water in the process.

By the way, have you noticed the price of gasoline, despite the record oil company profits?

Aren't you glad now that you voted RepubliKKKan-KKKon$ervative?

Reply to
Freedom Fighter
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Refering to ANSI C84.1, the standard for North American voltages, 114V to

126V under normal conditions is the acceptable range at the service. Under abnormal conditions, the range is 108V to 127V. By this standard, 126 is OK but 128 isn't.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Only for resistive loads operated continuously. Any type of resistive load switched off once a temperature is reached will operate at a lower duty cycle. This includes water heaters, ovens and dryers. The stove top will also heat faster and get (manually) turned down sooner in most cases. Motors are essentially constant power and the higher voltage doesn't materially change the POWER draw untill they reach saturation, somewhere in excess of 135V. (Higher voltage means lower current draw to meet the load requirement, resulting in lower loss. This is offset by higher iron losses at increasing voltage.) If you were a real engineer, you would know this. Or are you are knowingly lying? Many electronic loads are constant power and will draw a lower current due to the higher voltage. As another poster already mentioned, this will include compact fluorescents with electronic ballasts. The CF's will give you both constant light regardless of line votlage PLUS much more efficient light production.

Incandescent light bulbs are actually much more efficient when run at higher power. You are getting more than 14% more light for your 14% increase in power. If you don't want the additional light, go to 130V bulbs and have lower light output plus longer lamp life. (Or better, go fluorescent.)

This just isn't an issue for your air conditioner. It actually should last longer due to the motor running cooler with the higher line voltage (of course with a reasonable limit, but 128V isn't there). If you are using an air conditioner, you obviously don't give a rip about resources or the environment, do you? Get a fan, open the window and stop being a hypocrite.

Oh my, I am glad that I survived Europe where the line voltage is 230V AC. You better go warn all of them just how much danger they are in and convince them to lower the voltage. Once that is done, you better go to work on China where the votlage is 250V!

Just curious, did your line voltage jump up on January 20th, 2000?

And this has what to do with Con Ed?

Yes, that way I am not associated with the only Klansman in the senate, Robert Byrd ;-)

Just curious, why are you turning this into a political post. Are you a troll, or are you foaming about the mouth so much about Bush that you can't help yourself from including it in every conversation you have?

Matthew

Reply to
Matthew Beasley

Watt a Load of Crap: Get an ESCO Dude, or ask your doctor to lower your dose of Prolixin before you start seeing things coming out of your receptacles too.

Roy Q.T. Ghetto Electrician

Reply to
Roy Q.T.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:32:10 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Roy Q.T.) Gave us:

Yep... nuttin' mo dan a punk f*ck gang boy retard. Dat be you, dude.

Reply to
TokaMundo

| You mean to tell us that you are NOT using the fluorescent | replacements for standard incandescent bulbs yet?

Not everyone wants that crap.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

On 29 Jun 2005 03:31:48 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net Gave us:

Not anyone wants to hear your piss and moan crap either!

Jump on the modern, conservative bandwagon, or quit crying.

Reply to
TokaMundo

Re: CON Ed - CONNING US with HIGH VOLTAGE! Group: alt.engineering.electrical Date: Wed, Jun 29, 2005, 7:18am (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@weedizgood.org (TokaMundo) On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:29:22 -0400, "RF Dude" Gave us: AND I'm a TOP POSTER so you don't have to scroll down constantly message after message!!!! I wish others would figure this out too. =A0=A0=A0=A0Did you read your epitaph before you read your birth announcement? =A0=A0=A0=A0Get a clue, lazy boy. Is it really that difficult to use the scroll function of this hugely advanced desktop we have? NO! Stop making excuses, and learn to follow the norm. You do know what a norm is, don't you? YOU figure it out. IT being the way IT has been done for ages... likely longer than you have been around!

Say Dawn of the Ages: Take a Break ! Times Change ... good thing too, or wiping your ass would leave bruises and leaf marks }:-)=AE

Reply to
Roy Q.T.

In sci.engr.electrical.compliance TokaMundo wrote: | On 29 Jun 2005 03:31:48 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net Gave us: | |>

|>Not everyone wants that crap. | | Not anyone wants to hear your piss and moan crap either! | | Jump on the modern, conservative bandwagon, or quit crying.

As long as someone is willing to manufacture decent lighting products, I will continue to use them. Once LEDs become truly viable (including solving some remaining spectrum issues), I will migrate to that. But, until then, it will be incandescent for me. All mercury based products will not be permitted in my house, anyway.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

Quote:"But, until then, it will be incandescent for me." I agree with you.For heavily used light fixtures there are 220 V halogen bulbs in Europe which I think are excellent.Are there any for US 110 volts?

-- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr Ï Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá news: snipped-for-privacy@news3.newsguy.com...

Reply to
Dimitrios Tzortzakakis

| Quote:"But, | until then, it will be incandescent for me." | I agree with you.For heavily used light fixtures there are 220 V halogen | bulbs in Europe which I think are excellent.Are there any for US 110 volts?

There are. I've seen available for purchase online halogen bulbs in a wide range of voltages including: 110, 115, 120, 127, 130, 208, 220, 230, 240, and even 277. But I favor low voltage halogen because that allows the use of a thicker/shorter filament for a given wattage. Based on some general observations (no scientific study), choosing wattage/voltage combinations to get between 1 and 5 amps of current flowing in the filament is about the right conditions for high temperature, long life, and better focusing of light, given current metallurgy. I would probably want to make most lights about 12 or 18 watts, and simply use more of them where more illumination is needed. I will probably use 12 volts for most things indoors, and a mix of 12 volt for small ground level mood lighting outdoors, and 240 or 277 volts for safety/security/flood lighting outdoors (a mix of HPS and MH). In addition to NOT using fluorescent lighting indoors, I will also avoid the use of the common Edison screw base, or any other kind of base where it is possible to touch metal connected to one of the current carrying conductors. I understand in Europe, these kinds of light sockets are on the way out, anyway, especially in places like Germany where the plug-in receptacles are non-polarized (and thus you cannot be sure which wire is getting the grounded side).

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

No mercury products? Why... out of curiousity? The mercury in fluorescents is small and sealed into the tube. It can't harm you unless you break it. You can buy CF's in just about any color temperature and they do save money on energy. Here in the US, there are organizations that will recycle your expired fluoresent tubes in case you are worried about contaminating the environment.

Do you have any coal-fired plants supplying your electricity? Chances are the extra energy that you are burning with incandescents is dumping that extra mercury into the air that need not be...

Lots of nasty substances are used to make LED's also, like Arsenic, for example, although the amount is small and it is sealed up in the case coating.

Beachcomber

Reply to
Beachcomber

No, just 120 and 130 volt.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: ...

As I understand it, white LED's are not more efficient than incandescents although they might be a bit more rugged and last longer. The only way to get more efficiency is to go with monochrome LED's and try to use a number of different colors to add up to a white light. I don't know how effective that method is.

Anthony

Reply to
Anthony Matonak

White LEDs are really blue, with a phospor to convert it to white light.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

A little information can be a dangerous thing. LED's are less efficient than all but the smallest incandescent or halogen lights. And they are far more inefficient than any fluorescent, mercury vapor, metal halide, or sodium lamps. All the extra energy you waste will put more mercury into the environment (from power generation) than you could of ever obtained from all the mercury containing lights you could of ever bought.

Smaller wattage incandescent lighting like vacuum/halogen lights are far more inefficient than their larger wattage counterparts. Generally, the lower the wattage, the lower the overall efficiency. So you will just end up with a very inefficient lighting system that causes more power to be wasted, and more mercury to be dumped into the environment.

If you don't want mercury, why are you talking about using metal halide, and high pressure sodium lighting? MH, and HPS light bulbs have as much mercury in them as mercury vapor lights. They just have other things added with the mercury charge to change it's operating characteristics. (ie) halides and sodium. And, in actuality, you will be dumping more mercury into the environment with MH lights, than you would be with mercury vapor lights. MV bulbs last five times as long, so there is one fifth the mercury entering the waste stream. And you won't notice any mercury savings from power usage reduction. Because more power is wasted in making the additional MH replacement bulbs, than is saved over the bulbs life from the increased efficiency of the MH bulb over the MV one.

If you want mercury free outdoor lighting, then you have to go to low pressure sodium.

Here is a simple lesson in life, if it hurts when you do something, then don't do it!!!!! If you get shocked when you touch the metal in a light socket, and it hurts. ... Then don't touch it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to
SATAN

A little information can be a dangerous thing. LED's are less efficient than all but the smallest incandescent or halogen lights. And they are far more inefficient than any fluorescent, mercury vapor, metal halide, or sodium lamps. All the extra energy you waste will put more mercury into the environment (from power generation) than you could of ever obtained from all the mercury containing lights you could of ever bought.

Smaller wattage incandescent lighting like vacuum/halogen lights are far more inefficient than their larger wattage counterparts. Generally, the lower the wattage, the lower the overall efficiency. So you will just end up with a very inefficient lighting system that causes more power to be wasted, and more mercury to be dumped into the environment.

If you don't want mercury, why are you talking about using metal halide, and high pressure sodium lighting? MH, and HPS light bulbs have as much mercury in them as mercury vapor lights. They just have other things added with the mercury charge to change it's operating characteristics. (ie) halides and sodium. And, in actuality, you will be dumping more mercury into the environment with MH lights, than you would be with mercury vapor lights. MV bulbs last five times as long, so there is one fifth the mercury entering the waste stream. And you won't notice any mercury savings from power usage reduction. Because more power is wasted in making the additional MH replacement bulbs, than is saved over the bulbs life from the increased efficiency of the MH bulb over the MV one.

If you want mercury free outdoor lighting, then you have to go to low pressure sodium.

Here is a simple lesson in life, if it hurts when you do something, then don't do it!!!!! If you get shocked when you touch the metal in a light socket, and it hurts. ... Then don't touch it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to
N9WOS

There are two types of "white" LEDs.

  1. A blue LED that causes a phosphor to glow white. (less efficient, but cheaper to make)
2 A combined red/green/blue LED that mixes 3 colors to get white. (more efficient, and more expensive)

The "Tricolor" white LED can perform a neat trick - by varying the brightness of the 3 LEDs, it can produce almost any color desired!

CM

Reply to
CM

In sci.engr.electrical.compliance Beachcomber wrote: | |>

|>As long as someone is willing to manufacture decent lighting products, |>I will continue to use them. Once LEDs become truly viable (including |>solving some remaining spectrum issues), I will migrate to that. But, |>until then, it will be incandescent for me. All mercury based products |>will not be permitted in my house, anyway. |>

| | No mercury products? Why... out of curiousity? The mercury in | fluorescents is small and sealed into the tube. It can't harm you | unless you break it. You can buy CF's in just about any color | temperature and they do save money on energy. Here in the US, there | are organizations that will recycle your expired fluoresent tubes in | case you are worried about contaminating the environment.

I've seen how much is in there. It's enough to worry me. Part of the problem is when mercury comes in contact with wood, which is what my house will be made of, it gets in and cannot be cleaned out, but does slowly leach out over years.

There is also the spectral issue which is poetntially solvable, but the industry has shown no attempt to do so (probably because there is not enough market for that). LED spectrum is potentially solvable by the end user in home constructed LED lighting systems.

| Do you have any coal-fired plants supplying your electricity? Chances | are the extra energy that you are burning with incandescents is | dumping that extra mercury into the air that need not be...

I will eventually be adding solar power sources.

| Lots of nasty substances are used to make LED's also, like Arsenic, | for example, although the amount is small and it is sealed up in the | case coating.

LEDs are nowhere near as easy to break open.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

In sci.engr.electrical.compliance CM wrote: |>> As I understand it, white LED's are not more efficient than |>> incandescents although they might be a bit more rugged and |>> last longer. The only way to get more efficiency is to go |>> with monochrome LED's and try to use a number of different |>> colors to add up to a white light. I don't know how effective |>> that method is. | |> White LEDs are really blue, with a phospor to convert it |> to white light. | | There are two types of "white" LEDs. | 1. A blue LED that causes a phosphor to glow white. | (less efficient, but cheaper to make) | 2 A combined red/green/blue LED that mixes 3 colors to get white. | (more efficient, and more expensive) | | The "Tricolor" white LED can perform a neat trick - by varying the | brightness of the 3 LEDs, it can produce almost any color desired!

My plan is to use a wide variety of different discrete colors instead of depending on just three. The spectral issue for me is that the spectrum emitted is not continuous. I'm hoping enough different points in the spectrum will be adequate to appear as a continuous spectrum.

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

In sci.engr.electrical.compliance Michael A. Terrell wrote: | Dimitrios Tzortzakakis wrote: |> |> Quote:"But, |> until then, it will be incandescent for me." |> I agree with you.For heavily used light fixtures there are 220 V halogen |> bulbs in Europe which I think are excellent.Are there any for US 110 volts? | | | No, just 120 and 130 volt.

I guess you experience level in light bulb hunting and buying is limited. There are lots more voltages available. They are usually not in your neighborhood grocery store other than 110 to 130, but several online places have many more, and a couple even had 277 volt incandescent bulbs (a more limited range of wattages for these).

Reply to
phil-news-nospam

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