The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. I actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit would. If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet?
Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency? If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
It is probably not U/L listed
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:37:05 -0800 (PST) Gerald Newton wrote: | On Jan 29, 10:50?am, "Chuck" wrote: |> The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. ?I |> actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit |> would. ?If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet? |>
|>
|> Chuck | | Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency? | If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
What other listing agencies would make it legal?
ETL, TUV or any other NRTL
ETL is the recognized abbreviation for Electrical Testing Laboratories which is now a division of Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc. They provide product testing for conformance to recognized safety standards. There listing mark is just as acceptable in the safety inspection industry as UL. It's just not as well known to the General Public.
Ahhhhhhhhh....... that is the explanation I was looking for. Thank you.
Chuck
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:32:22 -0500 snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: | On 30 Jan 2008 02:48:53 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: | |>| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency? |>| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal. |>
|>What other listing agencies would make it legal | | ETL, TUV or any other NRTL
OK, so then those Schuko outlets I imported from Germany should be allowed.
[NRTL = Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory]
The NEC religiously avoids mention NRTLs and requires approval by the notorious authority-having-jurisdiction. I have never seen anything general about what is acceptable to AHJs. I suspect most jurisdictions follow what OSHA does, partly for legal cover-your-ass reasons.
OSHA was sued, twice, to force recognition of labs other than the long established UL, FM, and probably ETL. OSHA now has a list of NRTLs. OSHA also has a list of standards for inspection. Most electrical standards are from UL, some IEEE, a few FM... (?The standards may all have gone through the ANSI approval process?) I don't remember any standards that are from the new NRTLs. OSHA qualifies each NRTL as able to do approvals for specific standards. Some OSHA NRTLs do no electrical approvals,some may do only one, some (like UL) many.
As I understand OSHA, the standards for inspection haven't changed, but additional laboratories can list/label products as meeting those standards. That means new inspection marks to be familiar with. And figuring out what your AHJ allows. [Is much product from new NRTLs actually out there?]
So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:58:17 -0600 bud-- wrote: | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:32:22 -0500 snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: |> | On 30 Jan 2008 02:48:53 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> | |> |>| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency? |> |>| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal. |> |>
|> |>What other listing agencies would make it legal |> | |> | ETL, TUV or any other NRTL |> |> OK, so then those Schuko outlets I imported from Germany should be allowed. |> | | [NRTL = Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory] | | The NEC religiously avoids mention NRTLs and requires approval by the | notorious authority-having-jurisdiction. I have never seen anything | general about what is acceptable to AHJs. I suspect most jurisdictions | follow what OSHA does, partly for legal cover-your-ass reasons. | | OSHA was sued, twice, to force recognition of labs other than the long | established UL, FM, and probably ETL. OSHA now has a list of NRTLs. OSHA | also has a list of standards for inspection. Most electrical standards | are from UL, some IEEE, a few FM... (?The standards may all have gone | through the ANSI approval process?) I don't remember any standards that | are from the new NRTLs. OSHA qualifies each NRTL as able to do approvals | for specific standards. Some OSHA NRTLs do no electrical approvals,some | may do only one, some (like UL) many. | | As I understand OSHA, the standards for inspection haven't changed, but | additional laboratories can list/label products as meeting those | standards. That means new inspection marks to be familiar with. And | figuring out what your AHJ allows. [Is much product from new NRTLs | actually out there?] | | So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.
So what is wrong with TUV?
Nothing and if TUV/US has listed these they are legal ... but I doubt it. You also may bump up against the listing for lamp holders. I really don't know what is in UL496 and how it deals with pendant adapters. I don't see any reference in the U/L white book.
So in plain English, why is it that I can buy a metallic lamp or appliance with a two-prong plug (line and neutral - no ground) but not the flexible socket extender? No I am confused again.
Chuck
All "not listed"means is this has not been tested to the US standards. It may be perfectly safe. There are plenty of unlisted products for sale here but they end up in flea markets and dollar stores. The cops are nolt going raid you and throw you in jail unless you are counterfeting a trademark. If somebody gets hurt with the product the seller has one less layer of protection from law suit with unlisted products.
An extender such as you describe would put mechanical stress on the socket you are extending, far beyond whatever mechanical stress a bulb puts on that socket.
Without *knowing* for sure, I strongly suspect that manufacturers would avoid trying to make a product such as you describe that could get UL (or other lab) listing, because such listing would be costly or impossible to obtain.
In my opinion, even the flexible one shown in the link you provided is a bad idea, because of the stress it puts on the existing socket. One that is rigid enough to retain the shape you bend in into would be far worse.
Ed
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:20:59 -0500 snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: | On 31 Jan 2008 14:26:54 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: | |>| So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed. |>
|>So what is wrong with TUV? | | Nothing and if TUV/US has listed these they are legal ... but I doubt | it. You also may bump up against the listing for lamp holders. | I really don't know what is in UL496 and how it deals with pendant | adapters. I don't see any reference in the U/L white book.
But what of TUV from Europe. These devices are safe in Europe. How is it they become unsafe in the USA? Is it because both pins would have line voltage on them at the same time? I think not since the Schuko must be safe with 240 volts line voltage (relative to ground) on either pin.
Yes, these devices would be considered unsafe on a 120 volt circuit in the USA due to lack of polarization. However, they would be safe on a 240 volt circuit because the polarization is not relevant on USA split 240 volt.
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