Battlebots Good Weapon Material?

"Id suspect a good redneck backyard bot (made from a riding lawn mower) would use a homebrew thermal lance made from a rusty piece of pipe found in the back 40, and Grandmas O2 bottle and turn your bot into $10,000 worth of smoldering scrap in right short order. Or simply bludgen it to pieces with the differential from a 62 chevy pickemup truck."

It would never pass safety inspection.

"Nasa approach...does that mean yur bot will explode as the start signal is given or someone will screw up a measurement and your bot will miss the arena and wind up heading out of the solar system on a course to eternity?"

Yeah.. Good ole' NASA. But I'm not thinking of that NASA.. I'm thinking of the ones that make that wonderful memory foam materess. I figured someone would have something to say about NASAs errors in the past..

"Just one quick comment on that. The higher the precision, the quicker it will jam. The military learned that 50 years ago with weapons."

I think that has to do more with the tolerances. I know there were quite a bit of guns and weapons that weren't made with the same precision each time, so none of the parts were ever interchangable.. and the guns jammed and blew up in their hands.. so I don't know if that really holds true.. I know, for example, when they put the turret of a tank on its platform, it has to be so percisely aligned that even a thousandth of an inch will not work out right. Same with all the calibration and alignment to fire.. but once you get down to it.. pull trigger and shoot.

I was under the impression that this group dealt with high percision and CNC type metal working. I guess I will have to try rec.crafts.watchmaking instead.

"Frankly I was surprized to leard that you'd spent $7,000.00 on a project that hadnt been tested with at least one "bl;ade"."

We have $7000 in parts.. motors, gearboxes, batteries, controllers. No materials yet to actually make the chassis or weapon. Hence my presence here.

Battle Bots going off the air didn't have anything to do w/ "Tech Tv" channel being bought out? I haven't watched much of what was Tech Tv since. It's mostly computer games now. I wasn't aware Battle bots are off the air. I lost interest ddue to the MC & Hosts incomprensable British accents. Not because of the botts themselfs. Happy Holidays, John

You mean this dude?

Holy crap! Never heard of him before, but sounds cool. I vastly enjoy rednecking stuff. I still have all my fingers, so none the worse for wear. Yet. (:

(Someone else wrote, but AJ deleted attributions for,)

Um, no. Google for "Luger". It's a beautifully made German pistol, very tight tolerances, stunningly good machining, excellent fit and finish and quality. Also worthless with a speck of sand or dirt in the works. Compare this to an AK-47, which can be dunked in mud-water be brought up, and function just fine. Tight tolerance, fit and finish, don't help in some situations and in fact make matters worse, which was I think the point of whoever's post you're answering.

Perhaps while you're looking different places you could read this article:

might help you understand why your messages are being responded to in the way they are.

Yeah, you definately would benefit from reading and learning from that article. Seriously, it will improve what you get out of a group like this.

Dave "Horse to water...let's see what happens next..." Hinz

On 23 Dec 2004 13:51:34 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@Yahoo.com vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Speaking as an Aussie who has seen an Oz film (or show ) with subtitles for the US, .....I have nothing to say, actually.

Without getting into a long pissing contest about precision, accuracy, tolerances and resolution, (which I am quite happy to do if you're up for it), the point that I was trying to make is that if you are going to abuse something, you do not need or even want precise fits. A gear train fitted up perfectly will be much more likely to bind under abuse than one that has some slop in it.

Precisely fitted firearms are joy to use, but often fail under battlefield conditions. Some of the most successful (and deadly) firearms were and are made with stamped sheetmetal and very loose fits. And what you are building is, ultimately, a weapon that will be abused.

I've worked on missiles and I've worked on ag equipment. If I were to build a battlebot, I'd definitely choose the ag approach. If a farmer can't screw it up, it will probably work for a while in the battlebot box.

Now I suppose that if I had invested $7000 in a project and some smartass on rec.metalworking told me that I should not sweat the finish and loosen up the fits, and build it more like a tractor than a Porsche transmission, I'd probably not want to hear about it. And that's ok with me.

After all, it's not my money, just my opinion.

This group deals with a) liberal vs conservative politics, b) good, general shop advise.

After once making a foolish reply to a political post, I prefer to limit myself to b, but to each his own.

As to the shop advice, yes, there are people that can answer your question. I believe your question was concerning steel alloys and not precision CNC. Concerning the former, I doubt that you could buy better advice anywhere than Ed Huntress could give you.

Spending $7000 on parts doesn't prove anything. Many of us can and do drop that much at work on a project...

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:30:53 -0800, Jim Stewart vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

They damn well _did_. It was thanked and apparently ignored.

I would have thought that building a battlebot was all about testing, and trial and error. They certainly had some amazing mistakes and time-wastes.

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:38:00 GMT, "Jerry Martes" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Hear here, Jerry! Well summarized.

I have asked questions here and then questioned the replies, to the point of being censured...by some of the more prickly members . But I have never simply rejected, rubbished, or ignored them.

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Now here I disagree. NASA would never accept the car leaf spring......to easy and cheap!

On 19 Dec 2004 18:25:28 -0800, "AJ Quick" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Aiiii amd a Dalek. I will now ignore you.

Ignorrre! Ignorrre! Ignorrre!

Nah--that's just how this group operates. Seems the best way to utilize this place is to lay out your project, entertain the ensuing brainstorming, pick the ideas you like best, and reply to those. Seems to move along most quickly that way. Besides, the audience in here is mostly homebrew (this is a rec.* group, after all) so the first instinct is to scrounge. Then buy, if that doesn't work. So, most experience available in here has a lot of recycled car and truck parts in it. Be nice, relax, adapt. Personally, I'd look into the leaf spring suggestion--they make quite good hammers and hold a shape well under abuse. At least find out what kind of metal if you're a stickler for "from the mill" material.

You forgot reliable. (:

OK, the web site was instructive. It's a bunch of high school geeks, obviously not doing this on their own dime. Explains a lot about the attitude and apparent lack of experience.

AJ, The robot stuff will teach you a lot, but judging from your replies, you need to work on those interpersonal skills. The folks on here could teach you a lot, too, if you pay attention. Tim Williams is also a cocky young fellow, but he's done a lot I admire with (I suspect) nowhere near the infusion of cash.

If you need more money for your robot, team shirts, travel and party expenses, etc., ask your parents. I fund my teenager's experiments in blacksmithing, etc. for the hands-on learning experience for him. Beats all nighters on on-line rpg's.

Pete Keillor

[...]

LMFAO!

If you are looking for another or an East coast I located this one today :

da :

Seems simple - look in the buy on line - sheet - .... or whatever you want plank :-)

Martin - what is the difference of 6AL-4V and Grade 2 and ?? 6AL-4 Eli ?

Safety inspection? For a varmint thats designed to destroy another varmint? What the hell for? You clear the area, the designated starters fire em up and then run like hell out of the Zone of Robot Death.

Your welcome.

Evidently you are not particularly familiar with weapons. The AK-47 was designed to be cheaply stamped out of sheet metal and then handed to the first thumb fingered turd world savage you managed to coax out of his cave, told the rudiments of sight picture, how to load the magazine, which end the round comes out of and turned loose on your enemy(s). It likes its forebearer, the SKS etc etc all perform magnificently at this task. Tolerances are loose, the weapon may rattle when shaken, but does the job no matter if its been just drug out of the swamp, the mud hole, the sand dune or the manure pile in which it was stored or fallen. The M-16 will puke its guts out and become a large ungainly paperweight long before the AK/SKS etc notices its filled with yak shit. This is called Design for the Real World. The KISS Princible is a great one to stake your life on. The US trifold military entrenching tool..is no more than a simple, folding shovel that sucks big time. The wooden handled Russian shovel works first time, everytime, no matter what you do to it. This is called Design for the Real World (AKA...Murphy was an optimist)

If the turret requires .001 tolerences before it will traverse, the first time some gomer with an AK manages to put that lil 127gr peanut into the hull/joint..it would become a very expensive tomb for its crew. Or dirt, etc etc. Thats called Over Engineering for the Fantasy World.

It is. However..there is a huge difference between building things like clocks that need tiny clearences and other things that need big clearences to not only work properly, but to continue working in the Real World. The trick is knowing what and when. Ive seen many prints that the dimensions are spec'ed in 4 digits. When 2 or three would be fine, and preferable. You build your Bot to 4 digits precision, and the first bot with a flail comes along, gives your Swiss watch a healthy bash..and suddenly your 4 digit tolerences become a hinderence, rather than a help as the mechanism locks up tighter than a virgin aunt. There is a huge difference between Tolerence and Practical Working Clearance. Engineers tend to forget this. Dirty fingernailed technicians understand this very very well. Thats why we make the things the Engineers build, work in the Real World.

Shrug. Be anal when you need to be, but "Keep It Simple Stupid", the rest of the time. "Simple is good". "Complex is easy". "Works everytime no matter what", is best.

Cool, so pay attention to the really fart smellers here and learn to build your varmint so it works every time, no matter what. Err..smart fellers.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:43:15 GMT, "Martin H. Eastburn" calmly ranted:

Mebbe so. Howzbout a bottle of liquid nitrogen, to chill out the other bot? Then a MUCH smaller spinner would work to stop it by battering it into tiny metal, silicon, and rubber icecubes.

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote: : Battle Bots going off the air didn't have anything to do w/ "Tech Tv" : channel being bought out? --Different show; you're thinking of Robot Wars; it was the "owner" of that event that sued Battlebots. Battlebots won the lawsuit but it took almost 2 years for them to do so. 2 years of injunctions including one that said they couldn't change the content of their website or send out any info, hence no contests for those 2 years. Also no network deals. Now the "fad" has come and gone as far as TV goes. With consolidation of previously independent stations there's no network for them to approach. Lawyers, exective decisions, all that crap. Bottom line: 300 teams of hackerly kids with 600 machines no longer have a place to evolve their designs. Game over.

: I haven't watched much of what was Tech Tv since. It's mostly computer : games now. I wasn't aware Battle bots are off the air. I lost interest : ddue to the MC & Hosts incomprensable British accents. Not because of : the botts themselfs. : Happy Holidays, John