O.K. But no comment about the part quoted below where I explained at least why *I* read it as implying semi-frequent disassembly?
[ ... ]
Yes. The "Nutserts" are two-part items, in which the threaded part expands an outer collar -- in contrast to a "Rivnut" which is a single piece and which has a part thinner which expands to hold it firmly in place.
Yet another style -- and not matching the Rivnuts as originally made and sold by B.F. Goodrich -- the ones who own(ed) the "Rivnut" name.
[ ... ]
O.K. I sometimes use twenty on a single project.
If it did not draw in fully -- but not very useful if you strip out the threads by over-drawing. :-)
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But that is a much thicker piece of aluminum, thick enough to have a number of threads engaging -- not the one or two threads which would happen with the aluminum thickness described in the original post (0.080"). A 12.5 TPI (2mm pitch) screw would only get one thread in the metal. 32 TPI (e.g. 6-32, 8-32 or 10-32 to name common ones which I believe the OP mentioned) would only have 1.6 threads in the aluminum sheet.
I haven't -- but I've also not used it to try to prevent corrosion in a very shallow thread engagement. I would think that it would be more likely to wash out (in a rainy environment) -- especially if he keeps removing and re-installing the screws. :-)
O.K. For this, I would use true Rivnuts -- likely 6-32 countersunk ones so you can make the surface flush so it will slide freely. I think that much larger than 6-32 would require a thicker aluminum, but without measuring, or looking up in an old B.F. Goodrich catalog, I can't be sure.
But the Rivnuts would give you plenty of threads four or five, I think) so your screws would last for more cycles. I would use aluminum screws in aluminum Rivnuts -- and use an anti-seize compound on those. This would give the best life and lack of corrosion. If you need the greater shear strength of steel screws, then get steel Rivnuts too -- and still use the anti-sieze.
The Dzus fasteners mentioned are very good -- but you would need access to the inside of the extrusions to place and rivet the fixed side -- and depending on how far from the end of the extrusion, you may not be able to set the rivets as needed. And -- you would need custom ones with a much longer reach than most have.
My mind read "thermal cycles", as in night/day changes, so I didn't want to get into it. After rereading it a few times, I came to side with you on that, too.
HF's jobs are real (knockoff) rivnuts, then.
OK. Those I inspected with were very thin, maybe 1.5-2 threads, max. I had fun as a QA inspector until I took it into my entire life. Everything became go/nogo and it damnear kilt me, increasing my already far too high intake of alcohol. I'm glad I was able to walk away from both. I sure learned a lot there, though.
I've been surprised that I haven't needed/used more of them, too. You'll be happy to hear that replacements are sold in bags of 100.
True, but with all those threads, it's less likely. I'd also likely try swaging with a small chisel around the squozen side to keep it from rotating. Back up the nut onto something solid and tap the chisel down perpendicular to the axis in a few places around the threaded area... |
-0- (but tighter to the hole) |
Isn't that why we're suggesting rivnuts? To get away from the single-thread security? But I was thinking in terms of the rivnuts rather than a single sheet. I probably wouldn't keep anything around which broke so often, reengineering it to a higher performance the second time it died, if not the first. Aren't we all wired that way? (Here on Wreck.Metalheads, anyway.)
Aluminum Poprivet threaded inserts and SS screws have held parts of my gutters together for at least 15 years. I remove the screws when I clean it out, several times a year, and haven't noticed any deterioration. jsw
And we now have, elsewhere in this thread, an explanation of just what the situation is. (I read that last night after posting the previous article.)
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[ ... ]
Just very poorly photographed, then. :-)
I spent some time buying Rivnuts and Rivnut tools from eBay auctions, and people there seem to toss "Rivnut" and "Nutsert" in interchangeably in the same auction. Trying to maximize the numbber of hits, I guess. :-)
Glad that you were able to walk away from both. Always remember, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."
My first experience with the Rivnuts and the tooling was when I worked for a company which built (among many other things) flight simulators. That was also where I first experienced *proper* crimp terminals and tooling. :-)
But I wasn't in the position of having to inspect things, though I learned that the proper crimpers left one or two raised dots on the crimped area, depending on the size, so an inspector could tell whether the right tooling had been used on the terminals (where the color defined the size). Off by two sizes (and thus back to the proper number of dots) the mismatch was *extremely* obvious.
[ ... ]
That is good news.
But the compound leverage of the *proper* tool can strip the threads out of the 6-32 and 8-32 at least. The rest against which the Rivnut is pulled is threaded on the OD, and can be adjusted to give just the right degree of crimp -- for a single style of Rivnut, and a single thickness of metal. Change either (or both) and you have to re-adjust. Makes them a lot better for repeating jobs than for one or two Rivnut insertions.
I've got the lever tools for 4-40 through 1-4/20, some wrench and Allen key tools for 8-32, 10-32, and 1/4-20, and a hand-pumped hydraulic tool for all the sizes, and both the aluminum Rivnuts, and the steel ones. No way the lever style tool would do 1/4-20 in steel.
Well ... since it turns out that he is putting these in hollow extrusions as part of sliding-door frames, there is no real way that he could get to the backside to stake them as above.
However -- there are plain Rivnuts, and Rivnuts with keys (a raised radial part on the underside of the flange or the underside of the countersink head). There is a related tool to the lever insertion tool to cut the notch for these. With these (and proper assembly) there is no way they would spin once installed.
Yes. But you were mentioning the anti-sieze on spark plug threads, which can't be that thin. :-)
Yep -- but some things are harder to re-do, especially if they are commercially installed metal-framed sliding doors (as is the case here). Hard to get new extrusions of the proper thickness for tapping and still of the proper outside dimensions, and also if you replaced them with solid bar milled to the necessary shape, they would be a lot heavier than the tracks were made to handle.
Yeah, 99.9% of the time, the OP forgets to include about 90% of the detail needed which would get them a -good- answer the -first- time.
You expect otherwise in today's life? Half the pics I see lately were taken by damned cellphones by their overcaffeinated owners. 'sCriminal, it is.
Thanks, and I agree.
It's amazing how well proper tools and crimprings work, isn't it?
BTDT.
With 4 or 5 sizes being included in the original kit, having 100ea of the nuts would have at least doubled the kit price. And most people will use just one or two sizes the most frequently, so I think they did the right thing.
Yes, I suppose you're right. But it's as much the tool user as it is the tool, IMHO. Big JoeBob can easily strip any size nut while little JoAnn can't crimp the little ones hard enough.
True. Yes, "stake" was the term I searched for and missed, thanks.
Yeah, I used small amounts on those and fingers to even it out, wetting all the threads with it while taking off the excess. Nary a problem. Boy, were those easier to remove the next time, though!
Or use JBWeld Quick when you don't have time to wait! I hate that shit. Guys try it to fix an aluminum part then want it welded. That stuff makes the most toxic horrible fumes you can imagine! I charge an automatic $20 fee because they used it and now I have to remove it...... :>(}
If they had just photographed from a bit more of an angle, to show the shape of the Rivnuts, it would have been a big help. The tool could also be used with Nutserts, however. Just a bit different amount of crimp travel.
[ ... ]
I've experienced the too high alcohol intake problem in a family member (who is no longer with us.)
Yep. Just as though they were *designed* to do a good job. :-)
As an inspector, I'll bet.
[ ... HF Rivnut set ... ]
Probably so. I know that in crimp terminal sets, I commonly use red (22-18 ga), Blue (16-14), and Yellow (12-10), and occasionally small yellow (28-24 IIRC), along which much less frequent (and not to be found in most kits) Red (8), Blue (6), and I have crimpers and a few examples of Yellow (4), Red (2), Blue (0), Yellow (2-0), red (3-0) and blue (4-0) all of those with hydraulic crimp heads. The small yellow are also not in the kits. But there are *never* enough crimp terminals in the kits to even finish a typical project. (Not to mention not enough of a given ring size or forked terminal size to cover the project, either. And I expect the same from Rivnut kits. Occasionally, I've found boxes of
1000 of a given size, like 6-32. But for many years, I've had a few of a given size, and had to scrimp on where I used them.
Well ... the lever tools from B.F.Goodrich were designed to bottom easily, and if you first set the nose projection properly, nobody could squeeze it too hard, because the 1/3 round handle would nest against the fully-round handle. The leverage was over-center at that point, so it did not take a strong operator, and it could not be over-done. On the crimper in the HF kit (as well as many sold on eBay), I don't see any such travel limit, so over-tightening is too likely. (But it may not have enough leverage to make that easy. :-)
Ideally, someone else (who knows what s/he is doing, sets the projection of the nose on the tools for a particular project, and then the assembly people just put each Rivnut in properly without trouble. (Another reason for having spares is to get the tool set just right, which requires a few test rivets to be expended. :-)
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So -- countersunk Rivnuts with the anti-rotation key -- and the corresponding notching tool.
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I used the anti-sieze on the plugs in my MGA, which was fairly difficult to get to. :-)
Ours, too. One aunt, an alky who I dearly loved, accidentally shot her husband who had broken into the bathroom where she was going to commit suicide. She accomplished it a week later. Sad.
Yeah, almost, huh? ;)
I've done my share of balling up thin wire, putting in a few drips of solder, and making the 20ga wire fit the 10ga connector when the proper terminal wasn't available.
I 'spect you're right.
Nah, not if you're GOOD.
I rode in an MGTD to the QA job we were talking about. There was a gaping hole in the floorboard on the passenger side which made rainy days interesting. I'm sure glad we didn't live in England at the time. SoCal was bad enough. Heck, it got down to 40 there sometimes, in the middle of winter!
Knowing what I know now, I'd have helped him fit and weld in a new floorboard.
Low budget, and nobody present who knew what angle of view would give the customer information which s/he needs. (But then again, isn't that HF's basic principle of operation? :-)
If *I* had been photographing it, I would have included one photo showing the side view of a brand new Rivnut sitting beside one which had just been crimped (without the sheet metal to obscure the view), so people could see how it is supposed to work. :-)
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Ouch! Accidentally? She was going to use the gun to commit suicide? And when he broke in, he startled her enough so the weapon discharged?
In the case I mentioned, there were no firearms present. She fell and broke a hip, then bailed out of the rehab place early so she could get home to her alcohol and tobacco.
Later, in the nursing home, she re-broke the hip, and when on the operating table that time, her heart stopped and was restarted, but there was no brain function left. The heart kept running for another week and a half.
[ ... switch over to crimp tool from Rivnuts ... ]
Since the standards for military projects allow two or three smaller wires in a larger terminal, you can get away with folding a wire double or triple before crimping. I've been known to do that. One of the reasons why I like to have the small yellow (26-22 ga without checking what is stamped on the crimpers. (I Just took a set of them downstairs to the electronics shop earlier today, so I can't *easily* check. (But the red ones sort of vary -- the older crimpers are marked
22-16 Ga, but later ones and later terminals are marked 22-18 Ga -- eliminating the overlap with the next size up (blue).
[ ... Back to Rivnuts .. ]
Maybe -- but I know that I sometimes need to try a couple, especially if it has been a while since I last used it, and don't remember what thickness metal it was set for, and what grip range Rivnut, too. :-)
[ ... and Anti-seize ... ]
Hmm ... that would to have worked for the MGA. The foorboards are plywood, screwed down over lips on the trans tunnel, and into welded on nuts on the bottom of the raill, where they could rust in place.
The manual had you pull the seats, floorboards, and trans tunnel to access changing the clutch. I did it that way *once*, and then figured out how to do it leaving all of that in there.
And -- on my first one (a '57) -- someone before had replaced the official rear hanger for the muffler with a standard US one, which broke, bowing the exhaust tube up into contact with the plywood, which charred and sent an undesirable smell into the cockpit. Luckily, this was winter, and I pulled off and dumped some handfuls of snow on it, then I smashed a tin can flat and put it between the pipe and the floorboard, so I could get home and fix it *right*. :-) (I went to the local dealer and bought the proper support bracket -- and I think that was the only Whitworth hardware on the car. I had to use a crescent wrench on it. :-)
I think you could apply that to the vast majority of bidnesses alive today. They saved money by doing it in-house, using clueless morons who get minimum wage. "Why are my customers bailing?" they whine. C'est la guerre, oui?
He grabbed it and it went off in the struggle.
Wow. Now -that- is addiction...
That's what you get, using those januwine RivNuts instead of the more superiorer Chiwanese import thingies.
Indeed.
Isn't it fun, having to use 3 different style-sets of tools on one vehicle?
Well ... back in those days, they didn't need metric at least. My first metric socket set I got for the little 50 cc Honda which I used on a field trip in Arizona.
When a friend and I used to do a lot of work on our cars, we would commonly say "Please pass the (bigger/smaller) metric", meaning the Crescent -- even though nothing on our cars was Metric. :-)
"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@Katana.d-and-d.com:
I dunno... I bought a 1957 Fiat 1200 Spyder in 1967. There were a lot of VWs on the road then, but not much else 'foreign'. The Fiat (remember, from 1957) was ALL metric; not a single Imperial fastener on it.
Even with three VW shops in the county, we played hell finding a local auto parts shop that carried enough metric tools to make up a 'full set'. And BOY, did that motor need tools! It blew up _something_ about every 1200 miles (maybe that's why they called the model "the 1200"???), and no head gasket had ever been known to last on one of those engines for more than
Not intended as a distrust of *you* -- just that I understand how many ways an e-mail can be corrupted before it reaches me.
It is good to protect from *incoming* problems. but as an assurance that the *outgoing* e-mail is still virus-free by the time it gets to me -- that is a different game. :-) I usually get a chuckle out of e-mails that I get which claim to be safe because of checking at the sending side. It always could have been infected on the way through the net to my system -- or it could have been forged by someone else (including your "From: " and most of the other headers.
About the only time I might accept that as valid is if it used cryptographic signatures on the whole e-mail body, and also signed (cryptgraphically) as from someone who I trusted -- and who I trusted to not get his system infected. :-) As far as I can see, avast does not have provisions for cryptographic signatures to assure that the body of the e-mail (or usenet posting) is unaltered.
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