DRO usage on mills

You sound like a great candidate for one of the round column, RF-30 or

Pretty good as a drill press, fair to good for "scribe and cut" machining to plus or minus a couple or five thou easilly.

The guys that hack on them really seem to think that they would get a production grade tool for the money they cost.

And when your accuracy needs are "cut to the line" who gives a damn if the head swings sideways a bit when the head is moved.

Cheers Trevor Jones

Some people have put DROs on mill-drills...

You should learn how to program a CNC machine manually before you make such silly, ignorant, and obviously inexperienced statements.

Any decent CNC machinist (who knows his G-code and canned cycles) can do any operation faster with a CNC machine, than a similarly experienced manual machinist. And I'm talking about one-offs too. MDI is simple and very fast if you have a clue. Writing simple programs is simple as well. Setting up work offsets and tool offsets is trivial. Not to mention the machines are capable of moving/changing tools/ calculating/etc. many times faster than the people standing in front of them.

Regards,

Robin

You bill for your time when you're puttering around at home, after work? Who did you bill when you wrote the above message? Do you bill your wife on special friday nights? What about those other nights when she's not around? Who pays for your time when you're playing a game of pick-up with your friends? Falling asleep on the couch watching TV? I'd like to know as I think I could be rich!

I think the majority of those here aren't billing for their time in the shop. It's difficult to spend several hundred (thousands?) dollars on a DRO when you're only going to use it for a couple dozen hours/ year. Machines without DROs are entirely capable of doing precision work - either using the dial on the wheels, or other cheaper alternatives like plunge indicators and half a brain.

Regards,

Robin

ww88,

I've been considering the Anilam/Accu-rite or Newall, leaning toward the Anilam. My current project has me making some arcs. For this project accuracy isn't important as they won't be seen. The Anilam doesn't have that feature. However it will do a partial bolt hole pattern. Is the Newall arc program essentially a partial bolt hole pattern with many holes? I've looked over the manual. They explain the setup, but not operation.

Wayne D.

doesn't have that. A

Good description, Trevor. I had an Enco mill-drill for a while and enjoyed using it before I moved up to a BPort. I had free access to a really nice Lagun mill 5 miles away at the time, but I knew that wouldn't always be true. So, when I found a decent B'Port in my pricerange I grabbed it.

Jon,

You've given me some good advice in the past. I'm under the weather currently so I have some time for research. I don't think I want to be moving a mill when just keeping my eyes open is a project.

No problems using computers, I do it all day. I'm not that familiar with CNC other than the concept.

I'm getting a 9" x 42". So are there pre-packaged CNC kits? Any websites I can look over which will give me more information.

Thanks, Wayne

I've been using an Enco mill/drill for over ten years. It was my introduction to machining. When my brother and I went to look at it he recommended the knee mill on the showroom floor (back when Enco was in Chicago). At the time I wasn't comfortable with that. Now I have a decent lathe and want to upgrade the mill.

Wayne D.

I could see a hobby HSM putting something like Nick Mueller's YADRO on a mill-drill for under $100. For small hobby-type projects it may not be necessary to move the head from beginning to end of a project, particularly if you spot holes with a (short) centerdrill held in a collet and then later drill the holes on a DP.

I was able to do some reasonably precise work with mine, "precise" in this context meaning mill to within a thou or so, alternately file and mike if closer was needed. (It seldom was or is)

Do I hear sounds of "real machinists" ROFLOL? oh well. Stuff worked. Need odd metric bolt when the kid comes by on Sunday afternoon to do a repair on his Rabbit that he figures shouldn't take an hour because it only takes the shop an hour and a half and he has a hot date? Keep wrenchin', Kid, I'll have a new freakin' bolt for you in about 15 minutes.

Rule 1: no inop car other than Dad's stayed in Dad's garage overnight. If the job didn't get done before hormones got priority, it got towed (or dragged) to the back yard -- and it was then up to him to later get it back into the garage or finish the job in the snow, rain, hot sun,dark, skeeters, whatever. I regarded that as "learn to think more than 6" ahead" training. It worked.

Personally, I am not a machinist (do not own either a mill or a lathe), but I would also much prefer a CNC based mill to a manual one. Then, to me, making stuff will be more like computer programming, which is what I am good at.

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Don,

When I made my comment, I was referring to a professional shop, which elicited a flame from an obviously not very professional CNC snob. Now, I'm not one to argue with an idiot because folks sometimes lose track of which is which. But the only brand new Bridgeport I've ever seen went to work, alongside an older manual mill, in the middle of a shop full of something like two million dollars worth of assorted computer-controlled machines, all but the latest acquisition paid for... The shop owner, an extremely adept CNC programmer, started his business with one machine about seven years ago and has built it up very successfully. He's not one to waste either time or money. He owns the manual mills for one very simple reason: There are things they can do more quickly and economically than the CNCs.

I've been in at least a half dozen production shops in the past couple years. Without exception, every one has manual machines as well as the CNCs.

And I know a hobbyist whose interest is CNC. He built his own CNC system on a little Sherline. And he's done some pretty amazing work with it.

CNC is a fantastic tool and has been a tremendous boon to the machining industry. And the controllers have certainly come a long way from the days the operator had to punch a paper tape with a Flexwriter. But, regardless of what some sophomoric morons may think, the manual machines still very much have their place.

Jerry

Not necessarily a snob. I'm not a CNC machinist. I'm a tool and die maker. And I'm tired of people who don't have any professional experience making uneducated comments and spreading misinformation to others who don't have the opportunity to see the difference for themselves (many here). The last shop I worked in had tens of millions in CNC machines for tool and die work (virtually everything is a one- off in a die shop).

Do you have any personal experience that would suggest that a manual machine is faster/easier than a CNC machine (your original claim - please keep track)? (Of course more economical is very much a different question) I've spent thousands of hours running both CNC machines and manual machines. I can't think of any such example. Please enlighten.

Regards,

Robin (the CNC snob who hasn't touched a CNC machine for over a year)

Personal characterizations may make you feel good but they don't contribute substance to a thread. And you risk diminishing your own credibility when the object of your ridicule is someone with great credentials, has contributed and is well regarded here, as Robin is.

That doesn't mean that his opinions are infallible, but they do deserve respect.

Trying to keep RCM civil and pleasant, Bob

CNC can certainly do some things easily and well that would be very difficult to do with cranks. I'd enjoy having a small benchtop CNC mill. It's not high on my list, but it's definitely on my list. I don't want to convert my B'port because if I only have one it will be manual. I never make more than one or two of anything and I rarely "built to print". Hobby and HSM stuff is often more like craft than production. I often don't know the exact dimensions until I measure what I've made.

I sometimes regard machinery and tools as extensions of the hands and imagination of the craftsman. Handling the metal and turning the cranks is part of the fun. I'd starve if I was trying to make a living at it.

QED. The shop in which I work (play) has maybe 0.005 millions worth of machinery and negative annual cashflow (!) I have zero experience as a professional machinist or metalworker, decades as an amateur. I'm not completely uneducated, but I've never served a formal apprenticeship.

That's sinking money into a tool that may or may not be worth it. The accuracy will definately go up, excluding the movement of the head.

To each their own, and to each their own circumstances.

I wouldn't, and I'm pretty much a fan of the mill-drills.

Cheers Trevor Jones

Yeah. Always with the knowledge, and experience, comes the change in perspective and the knowing of the needs and wants.

I try to aim the guys that only think they need a mill-drill at the R8 taper units, rather than the Morse ones for the reasons that the tooling will transfer over if chosen wisely, and that the whole world is full of R8 taper tooling, and far less of the morse 3. Guys that want a decent big (for a home shop) drill press, with occasional milling, I suggest the morse machines to. One of the suppliers I talked to, was stocking an RF-30 type machine with an extra high column on it as there were a lot of them being bought to run as drill presses with built in slides, rather than as a mill.

Cheers Trevor Jones

.....

Fortunately mine was an R8. What I did for accessories, when appropriate, was to buy the better stuff. So when I get the new mill I don't have to get all new accessories.

Wayne D.