Early Continental engine question again

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Anybody have a recomendation for the creankcase oil to be usde in a 1911
Continental 4 cyclinder gasoline/ kerosene engine?



Re: Early Continental engine question again



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30 wt



Re: Early Continental engine question again


wrote:

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I'd start out with a straight SAE30 deisel rated (multi-fleet) oil or
possibly a 15/40 Rotella

Re: Early Continental engine question again


wrote:

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  I'd think modern detergent oils (API SG) would be just fine, the
trick is finding a straight 30-weight oil since the whole world has
shifted to multi's.  If you go with a modern multi-viscosity so it's
easy to find stay on the heavier side in the summer, like a 10W30.  

  If it doesn't have an oil filter(and it has a pressurized lube oil
system) add one - you should still be able to find a "Purolator
Military Junior" filter shell that takes bypass cartridge elements and
is fairly period in appearance. It'll skim off all the big chunks.

  Even if it's "period" I would NOT try to find a non-detergent oil.
Unless you like overhauling it a lot more often - there's a reason oil
has evolved over the years, it lubricates a whole lot better now.

--<< Bruce >>--

Re: Early Continental engine question again


On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 00:24:59 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman

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Autozone stocks ND-30 and HD-30. oils.

Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

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Wow - you guys are discussing oils like the wine snobs do - about the
only subtlety you havent touched is if it should be Californian or
French....................<g>......

Andrew VK3BFA


Re: Early Continental engine question again


I like Castrol GT, 10w30 from the southern oil fields of
Arabia... 2006 was a very good year.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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Re: Early Continental engine question again


On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 05:25:26 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA

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Well..given that I live in the middle of the oil fields..of course
Californian is superior!!  And Ive got olive groves not 10 miles
away..and Safflower fields in sight!!

Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

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The French have oil wells?



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Steve B wrote:
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   No, they get it from their food.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

Re: Early Continental engine question again


On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 05:25:26 -0800 (PST), Andrew VK3BFA

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  As long as it was refined right, the appellation on the feed stock
are totally irrelevant.

  Though I would take pains to not give Hugo Chavez a single dime if I
can help it.  No CITGO or Petrobras.

  The guy who insists that you have to be totally authentic and run
vintage correct non-detergent straight 30-weight oil in a vintage
engine...  Isn't the guy that has to pay for the rebuild when it fails
after 100 hours runtime instead of the usual 2,000 to 4,000.  

  Modern oils are a whole lot more slippery than the old stuff, and
protect a lot better even when they are thinner.  

  Oh, and note that I said *bypass* filter element, they are a whole
different animal made of packed cellulose or cotton fiber in the can -
if you rig a full-flow paper cartridge element up as a bypass filter,
the engine won't have enough oil pressure left to lube the bearings as
it all goes around the bypass and back to the crankcase.

--<< Bruce >>--

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This pre-dates the engine in question, but I recall the instructions for
lubricating one of the pioneer cars -- from around 1901 - 1904, IIR, that
Ken Purdy published in one of his classic car books. You were supposed to
melt lamb fat and pour it in the engine, and then start it before the fat
congealed. Then you were to drain it when you stopped the car for the day,
into your melting pot. <g>

Oil changes were to be conducted every 50 miles.

--
Ed Huntress



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Ed Huntress wrote:
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If I was running that engine, I would ask myself what do I expect from it?
  Is it just an engine in a tractor that goes to country shows, and
never do any real work, like pullimg a plough or a set of disks for 8
hrs a day,?
If so then you could use any 20 weight oil as the loading on the engine
is minimal. also if the engine has never been apart ,sinceit was made,
id take off the sump and give it a good wash out and wash out the oil
lift pipe strainer.
#then you would have a better idea having looked inside thec crank case
how much sludge or not was over everything.
  If the inside is relatively clean then theres no doubt, a multigrade
detergent oil   is a better product than say a 1911 30 weight oil.
Its interesting that Porsche only allow a fully detergent diesel engine
oil in their flat 6 air cooled engines.
  Has to be a good reason.
I restored and ran for a no of years a 1908  Renault 4.5ltr 4 cyl
landaulette. I used in that  a 20/50 multigrade and it loved it .
Also, my current commercial vehicle a 2 axle rigid  has the  Rootes
blown 2 stroke Junkers derived commer TS3 3cyl 6 pston  installed.
Engine dated 1959, I use a multigrade 20/50 diesel engne oil. and that
has never missed a beat, despite having highly thermal loaded fire rings
on the pistons.
So choose the oil to suit the work done and engine condition.

Ted
Dorset UK.


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snip

note that on my cars that use a bypass filter (such as my 38 plymouth) there
is a pressure regulator on the bypass return line that ensures that there is
pressure there - it only opens when the pressure gets above the setpoint and
then it lets the oil from the return line go into the sump, if pressure is
low, it blocks the return of oil to the sump, thus keeping the engine oil
pressure up.


Re: Early Continental engine question again


On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:26:14 -0800, "Bill Noble"

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All the ones I've delt with actually maintain gallery pressure by
restricting the outlet flow by use of a metering orifice, or in more
technical terms an itty-bitty hole-

http://tantel.ca/Images/The%20Sludge%20Pile/Section_B_Lubrication/Fram%20filter%20cannister_1.jpg

This particular model is a Fram cannister as used on Willys L & F head
engines.  A number of people have tried to update this system to a
spin-on cannister system with, what would have been if these engines
wern't happy running on a couple of PSI oil pressure, dissasterous
results.

H.

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http://tantel.ca/Images/The%20Sludge%20Pile/Section_B_Lubrication/Fram%20filter%20cannister_1.jpg
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you may be right about the "metering orifice" -  some day I'll dig out the
manual and check


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wrote:
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Straight weights are relatively easy to find at the auto parts places,
just not in every brand.  Non-detergent might be harder to find, but I
wouldn't recommend it unless the thing has been freshly overhauled and
you need some break-in lube for the first few hours.  Considering the
state of lubricating oils when it was built, anything we've got now
has got to be a whole lot better than what was run in there
originally.  If it's just a splash lube system, you're going to want
to change oil a lot more frequently than with a pressurized filter
system and probably the first few ought to be at short intervals to
get rid of loosened-up junk.

Stan

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I have a Lincoln SA 200 that has the add on oil filter.  They can be used
with a roll of toilet paper as a filter, and do a fine job.  With the new
rolls, though, one has to roll some off to make it small enough to get in
the canister.

Steve



Re: Early Continental engine question again


Usually creankcase (sic) oil to be usde (sic) is based on
the local climate. Most of the time in USA, 10W30 works
well. I'd dare to guess that a 1911

Continental 4 cyclinder (sic)  gasoline/ kerosene engine is
no exception. Some farmers like straight weight oils. I've
heard some engines need non-detergent oils. I would avoid ND
oils, unless the owners manual requires it.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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Re: Early Continental engine question again


My vote would be a 30 wt non detergent. The original was designed to use
the equivalent of 20wt, 30 wt or 40wt non detergent oil depending on the
ambient and operation temps. You don't say but I'd guess that the
Continental has either a full splash system or only a low pressure oil
system for the valves.

Detergent oils are designed to keep the crud in suspension (among other
things) , let it get back to the filter to get removed. Non detergent
oils will let the crud drop to the bottom of the crankcase as sludge.
I'm sure you have no high pressure lube and filter system, go with non
detergent.

Detergent oils did not exist in 1911.  Owners manuals were close to non
existent. Quality specs on oil were non existent. You will have to deal
with the choice of going with a modern oil or the original.

If you did not have a chance to full desludge the engine when rebuilding
it, you could run a couple batches of lighter weight detergent oil to
clean things out. If you do that, only operate at fast idle, no heavy
loads or you take the chance of pounding the bearings out. Run until the
oil visbily changes color, replace.

.

Grumpy wrote:
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