What kind of fire extinguishers do you use in your shop?
I went to the fire extinguisher service place to get some advice on upgrading the fire extinguishers to deal with 102 octane race fuel. I got a serious earfull. Things that went against what I thought I knew or did know and ignored:
-CO2 is not used much, gives a quick snuff out of fire but reignition is a big issue
-dry chemical ABC rated has ammonimum phosphate which melts on the surface of wood and paper to avoid reignition but also is highly corrosive to aluminum and electronics.
-you can get dry chemical rated only BC which is supposedly better for engine and shop fires
So I'm thinking of swapping out the ABC rated extinguishers in the garage and replacing with BC rated. Then move the ABC rated ones to the wood shop to sit along side an old fashioned pressurized water unit.
A co2 unit is what I have for a first response to a fire. The biggest unit I can carry. It leaves no mess and will put out a fire if it is not too big. This was always the one of choice for engine fires in aircraft. The abc powder units will put out a fire better but they leave an awful corosive mess that is very hard to clean up. I would only use that as a backup for the CO2 unit but have both available.
Depends on the material on fire. CO2 is used when you don't want to leave a BIG mess behind.
Yep, it is VERY nasty, even more if it gets damp. It is also not fun if you manage to get a lungful.
There are FAR more than those types. Foam, Halon, Wet Chemical, Other Vaporizing liquids (specialty extinguishers), Plain water.
Well for the garage I would probably go with a unit loaded with Purple-K BC unit. I also have a class D unit next to the area I do most of my metal work at, as well as a tub of DRY sand.
All sorts. I pick up orphans (All good ones - Amerex, Badger, etc.) and get them Hydrotested and recharged, paint as necessary, then I find a good spot for them. And they get refilled when they need another Hydro at a minimum.
There are 'A' Pressurized Water, 'ABC', BC-Bicarb and BC-Purple-K, and BC-CO2 in the shop, scattered around semi-randomly near the doors. Tell me what you're working on at the moment, and I'll tell you what is the best one to go fetch and have sitting right beside you while you work...
It's a whole lot easier to make that analysis of fuels and exposures and grab the right extinguisher /before/ you break out the torch and start, than to panic when it goes in your face and it's AwShit! time.
Be advised that any Halons or Halotrons (or other "Clean Agent" replacements) and Purple-K are VERY expensive to refill. You only use them when you really need to - Confined spaces, trapped people, on computers and sensitive electronic equipment, stuff like that.
Halons need to be taken in every six years - even if they are in Hydro for 12 you now need to have the O-rings changed on the discharge valve every 6. Keeps them from leaking their charge and fouling our precious environment.
Class D powder for metallic fires (magnesium, titanium) is a bit expensive, but an approved Class D extinguisher for it is massively overpriced since they don't sell very many. The slick trick I learned (if your local Fire Marshal agrees, check first) comes from a friend who ran an aerospace machine shop for decades...
You get a 5-gallon pail of Class D powder, cut the locks around the lid to loosen the cover so it pulls off in a hurry. Get a quart-sized aluminum dry-measure scoop at a restaurant supply, put it in the pail. If you ever get a metal fire on the lathe or mill you stop the machine, pop the lid and dump a scoop of D powder right on the fire. Fire's out, minimal mess.
I have both CO2 and a "Water" potassium acetate "Class K" for the kitchen (bought the K new, McMaster has a good deal on them) designed to handle grease fires fast if the french fries ever go up.
For the WW-II Generator, a WW-II 2-1/2# Military CO2 marked "SPUN NON-SHAT" - the guys at Pioneer said "Forget it, it'll never pass" when I brought it in for Hydro... And whadda ya know, it passed. ;-)
Keep in mind that Halon, while an excellent fire extinguisher, and kind to sensitive equipment, is hell on people in enclosed spaces. Which is the reason it is now considered 'vintage'.
Keep in mind that Halon, while an excellent fire extinguisher, and kind to sensitive equipment, is hell on people in enclosed spaces. Which is one of the reasons it is now considered 'vintage'.
I use a couple of large CO2 rigs and a couple of pressurized water ones. All were salvage bought from the same guy. Took the CO2 ones into the extinguisher place, cost about $10@ to have them gone over. Water extinguishers are a no-no anymore commercially, but I like to have them around when using a torch on plumbing under the floor and in the walls. The CO2s sit nearby when welding, will cool things down in a hurry as well as the fire extinguishing function. Biggest problem with CO2 is that it tends to blow stuff around, not great when you've got burning paper or rags. CO2 is cheap to recharge, too, if you have to use one.
All mine are dry powder, but I intend to get at least one big water-shooter and use Cold-Fire or something similar. That's the hot setup (no pun intended. Really) among the SCCA crowd, per a discussion just this morning.
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote: (clip) Purple-K are VERY expensive to refill. You only use them when you really need to (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ I put Purple K in seltzer bottles, and keep them on standby. My insurance inspector was skeptical until I demonstrated one on a burning bucket of paint thinner. I brief shot and the fire was out. The only refill needed was a fresh CO2 cartridge.
Bruce said a mouthful in the first paragraph. Don't even look at the cheap units. And make sure that you KNOW how to use one properly. I have a distinct advantage over most people in that my shop is about 1 minute from the fire station, AND I'm a fireman who can operate any of the gear needed (including the engine parked next to the shop right now. It's For Sale if anyone is interested).
I recommend taking an extinguisher course if your local department offers one. It is a great way to learn how and when to use an extinguisher, and you don't have to foot the bill for the recharges.
Also if you have the money and are in an area with a GOOD water supply look at the cost of a sprinkler system. They will cut your insurance rates a LOT.
2kg and 6kg CO2 as first hit on most things (oils, electricals etc). 9 litre foam for wood and paper where there is no electricity. 2kg and 6kg dry powder for if it's a choice of completely cleaning the shop out or building a new shop.
Oh, sometimes a small spray bottle has been used when doing soldering with a torch near wood... much simpler than a proper extinguisher when you expect to have to control little flare ups.
For plumbing I would use a pump up type water spray unit. It would work well for working outside in the field when welding too. Worked well for prewetting anything around that looked like it could catch fire.
Sort of on a tangent here, but a while ago I read that if someone is burned and sprayed with a dry chemical extinguisher, you should be sure to send the empty extinguisher to the ER with the person. Apparently there are so many varieties of dry chemical extinguishers that you have to know accurately which one they were sprayed with to treat them.
Not true. The only reason that older Halon systems are 'vintage' is the ozone depletion potential of the old compounds, making them rather expensive to own. If you already own them and maintain them properly (6-year seal replacements) keep them.
The products of combustion generated as the fire was getting going, and the compounds formed in combination with the Halon breaking up the "Chain of Combustion" isn't exactly good for you, so you want to get out ASAP - but that's the same no matter what method you use to put out the fire. CO2, water, dry chem.
The big hazard is oxygen depletion in a discharge of a fixed Halon flood system (computer room), or overzealous use of a large hand extinguisher in a confined space - if there's no oxygen left to breathe, that's 'immediately hazardous to life and health'.
Either way, get the heck out of the room, call the FD, and let them go in with proper SCBA to make sure it's out and ventilate the room.
You really don't want to use Halon or CO2 outdoors anyway - it blows away and if everything is still hot the fire can and will reignite. And you're standing there squirting over and over till it all cools down. Been there...
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