Hydraulic fluid question

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:nk3n2s$bqe$1 @dont-email.me:

Dunno... I've never researched the differences, and always use hydraulic- rated ones on my custom machines. They are usually MUCH (much!) larger than automotive filters, except for those on large ag or construction machines.

Don't forget the sock filters!

Lloyd

No, "not just like" at all...they owned (from 1944) and operated _the_ refinery that produced the products.

Not a significant difference other than the settings of the bypass valves and presence of anti-backflow valves, which may or may not be present in either application

From 1844 till when?? I got into the Ag Mechanics and auto mechanics business in '68, after 4 years working on the farm. By that time MOST of the small refineries were closing their doors. There are still s few specialty refiners left - but even many of them don't do their own distilling or fractionating any more. They just blend feedstocks they buy from shell, amoco, dow, citco, etc.

it appears the co-op still operates one refinery in the usa - Mount Vernon Refinery (Countrymark Co-op), Mount Vernon 27,100 bbl/d (4,310 m3/d) In Canada there is only one "independent) left - CRC in Saskatchewan. There are also a few re-refiners such as Safety-kleen

The refinery is still in operation altho the co-op sold it in 2000. And, it's not all _that_ small albeit is isn't Exxon-Mobil.

And, I did double-check just to make certain...the Circle-3 drum label says manufactured "BY" _NOT_ "FOR" the co-op.

I'm not positive about the provenance of the Circle-3 trademark, although since the co-op TM was two interlocking circles I'd always thought it was a play off of that...

I am certain they did develop a lot of their own farm-use-specific lubricants--I visited the lab a number of times and Dad became quite good friends with the R&D director...

On 06/18/2016 11:29 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote: ...

Different co-op (there are many, not just one in the US, altho what eventually became Farmland was by far the biggest). The refinery was sold in 2000 to a private entity and is still operating. Capacity is ~100,000 bbl/d plus a N fertilizer production facility.

On 06/17/2016 8:26 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote: ...

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Yes, but is there any spec that says a purposed hydraulic oil must be compatible with an engine oil? That's where I'd have some concern (altho I'm not that keen on mixing oils, either, just on general old-timey principles even though I know "they say").

Jonny Boi, you are f***ed. Ive just forwarded your name to those keeping the list..along with your header information.

Are you familiar with "impalement"? A very very old practice widely used in many countries in Europe. Vlad the Impaler really was quite good at it.

They sharpen up a small tree..nothing more than 10 or so feet long, lop off all the branches and cut the end nice and sharp...then they force the end of it into your rectum as deeply as they can...then they lift you and the stake up into the air and plant the end of the stake in a nice hole in the ground and stamp the dirt around it firmly.

So there you are...10 or so feet up in the air..with a sharp stake up your ass and as time goes by...it pushes deeper and deeper into your body cavity..any organs that arent pushed aside..are punctured as you slowly..very slowly slide down the stake...until it either punctures your heart or it chokes out your lungs..but it takes many many hours for it to kill you.

After that your body is going into one of my 3-5 woodchippers and your goo will be used as bondo on my service trucks so you will get to ride around and remind me how much my life is better than yours.

Gunner (posting from my mobile office)

"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on --shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."

Actually the word is "Hypoid" and refers to a specific type of gearing, it: " is a type of spiral bevel gear whose axis does not intersect with the axis of the meshing gear", and Hypoid oil is designed specifically for these gear as: " Special gear oils are required for hypoid gears because the sliding action requires effective lubrication under extreme pressure between the teeth.

Strange that such a person like your good self, who brags so loudly about being a super-doper maintenance man doesn't know that. Probably a "stroke moment".

Sitting in the truck with a hand phone?

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On reflection I'll add another that'd I'd guess has a great deal to do with it -- Deere, Case-IH, etc., have enough production volume they can create a market on their own while all the smaller outfits that make the various ZTRs, etc., etc., don't individually have such market size. Hence they can spec a product and be sure it'll have sufficient volume demand to have a viable market. Others simply use an available "good enough" product (albeit it may be as good as or even better in some sense than the custom-spec'ed one).

A friend paid $15 per *quart* for genuine Fisher snow plow hydraulic fluid after I rewired the plow for him.

The empty bottle's spout can reach the awkward oil fill hole on the HF Predator 212cc engine.

--jsw

Just thought I would point out that Exmark seems to be part of Toro.

I don't know how big that is compared to those you listed though...

On 06/19/2016 9:29 AM, Leon Fisk wrote: ...

Well, I didn't either, but google is our friend (so they say, anyway :) )...

In 2015, Deere net sales were ~$25B vs about ~$2.5B for Toro so roughly

10X on sales. But, what I was thinking about more was simply volume of product needed--when you're talking hydraulic fluid quantity, it takes a lot of ZTRs and other landscaping equipment (even commercially-sized) to make up for just one large tractor or combine or earthmover. The hydraulic capacity of the combine here (which is not the largest by any stretch) is

Engine Gearcase (Hy-Gard)-- 13.5 US gal Hydraulic Reserv (Hy-Gard)- 14.5 US gal

The other various fluids

Engine crankcase - 10.3 gal

Transmission (GL-5) 10 qt Final Drives (GL-5) 8.5 qt Countershapt Drive (GL-5) 1.3 qt Unload Auger Drive (GL-5) 4 qt Separator Drive (GL-5) 5 qt Feeder House Reverser/w Cooler (VG460 Synthetic) 3.7 qt

I wasn't thinking about it in that way, that's for sure and I see your point.

With John Deere it seems like you pay for everything. With that in mind my view is that they just want you to buy everything from them and they have their methods to insure you do. They produce a decent product that has a certain "class appeal" that enables all of it. Similar to Apple, Harley Davidson...

That attitude, policy really rubs me the wrong way and I avoid those companies if at all possible. It seems to work for them though ;-)

On 06/19/2016 1:12 PM, Leon Fisk wrote: ...

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Trust me, you "pay for it all" with any company, whatever the paint color!

When rely upon it for time-critical revenue, the initial cost, while of some concern certainly, is far from the most critical element. While Deere does make some pretty marginal consumer goods that are pretty pricey, the ag- and construction-class gear is something else entirely.

We've got red paint and various others as well as green and it all has to justify its value in terms of what it does for the investment (which ain't trivial for any of it). Deere is certainly extremely competitive in that arena or they wouldn't be so successful.

Spent the prior 6 yrs. working in Eastern Germany before I retired in Aug. '14. Lived in a little town right in the middle of very large AG operations there not far from the Leipzig Flughafen. In all that time, I don't think I ever saw but once or twice anything but John Deere farm equipment. The G ermans believed in it and they are certainly not stupid people. My consumer goods JD lawn tractor has done very well for me 12 yrs. now. You get what you pay for with the JD equipment. Just my .02.

Another thing you need to look at is product bt producr sales. How many lawn tractors does deere make, compared ro AYS, or MTD? And who makes the consumer grade JD Lawn tractors? We already know they don't make their own hydrostatic units - or their own engines.

MTD actually builds most of the low end (non commercial) JD lawn tractors you buy at Home Despot.

On 06/19/2016 8:29 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote: ...

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Doesn't really make any difference; if they're Deere-branded and spec the Deere fluids they count in the usage of same...which was the point under discussion.

But, still all it takes is one combine to make up for several hundred of anything at all that the others build in the volume...