import welders

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 04:44:47 GMT, the inscrutable Art spake:

I didn't really research them before my purchase, so I'm no help there.

I settled on the Harbor Freight #44568 at $119 on sale last month when the few Tombstones I'd seen around here went for $125+. Even when sticking the rod onto the weld fifty times while trying to get used to the machine (and not being able to see with the handheld POS mask they gave away with it) it didn't overheat and cycle on me. I'm impressed. It's a larger box at 26x13x19"

But, now that I've tried the little lunchbox TIG welder of Glenn's, I'd rather have one of those. They're on sale at $199 right now.

There seem to be 15 stores in FL, so one should be near you.

========================================================== I drank WHAT? +

--Socrates + Web Application Programming

You are doing exactly what it takes to generate the perfect used buzzbox. It will magically appear in your area a week or two AFTER you buy import! I hang out with a bunch of people who say "don't quit five minutes before the miracle". I vote for PATIENCE. Or looking in a different way. Have you tried contacting local businesses or trade schools, looking for unwanted machines?

Anyway, I have zero experience with import welders so can't say.. GWE

Call some radio "tradeo" type programs, also. May have to call several days in a row. Word will get around by word of mouth that you're looking. Some lady will talk her husband into offering you the welder he seldom uses. :-)

Is that really worthwhile? I am about to sell my 110V Crapsman MIG today. Figured on replacing it with a Hobart 130, Firepower 120, or the Clarke 130 from Northern Tool. The 110V MIGs have suited all my needs so far. I had no idea there was a TIG in that price range.

Would the TIG be a better choice? Why? Does it use a gas bottle like the MIG did? I am keeping my gas bottle with 75/25.

Do a little reading over on sci.engr.joining.welding. Tig is better for some things, mig better for others. The TIG does use gas, but straight argon. You can get your bottle filled with 100 % argon.

Dan

Rex B wrote:

bottle

I pulled up the spec sheet for a typical imported 240 volt stick welder:

and for the standard Lincoln "Tombstone" welder A few things to think about: The Licolon has an Open Circuit Voltage (OCV) of 79 volts versus 50 volts on the import. A high OCV is needed to start rods easily. A pro usually doesn't care much, a newbie will be quite frustrated by the import special.

The duty cycle on the Lincoln is 20% at the full rated 225 amps. They don't have a curve but I suspect 100amps (about right range for 1/8"

6013 rod) has a duty cycle of 80% or better. ie just weld away. The duty cycle on the import is 10% at 130 amps, wonder what it is at full output? 5%???? Duty cycles are rated in 10 minute periods, figure about 1 minute to burn a rod. 10% means weld one rod, wait 9 minutes.

The shipping weight on the import is 58 pounds, the Lincoln comes in 124 pounds, more than double. Copper and iron in the core makes up the difference.

Both of them will require you to purchase a helmet, the import does come with a "shield" that requires you to hold in in place but they are a pain to use.

Net: You get what you pay for. The import will do some jobs. It surely w> Hello group.

You nailed it! No free lunch with the cheap import. My old Miller Thunderbolt 225 has a 100% duty -cycle at 100A and about 80OCV. Billh

hey... thats not a bad idea... buy an import, The Fates then popup a AC/DC 225 for $50, down my street, I then buy the 225 and sell import... LOL ah... but The Fates are smarter than that.

Thanks, this is a VERY good idea. There must be more than a dozen weld shops right nearby (security bars are real big down here ), and way more shops if I include the metro area.

Thanks to all those who have responded with comments.

Art

One more thing -- for many years now, BOTH the Lincoln and Miller buzzboxes have their main transformers wound with ALUMINUM not copper. Those who think just because they're made in the US they're heavy copper, it ain't so. - GWE

If your work is mostly automotive as your sigline suggests, MIG will probably suit you best. TIG is more precise and easier to control if it has a footpedal. It is also capable of doing a greater diversity of materials. MIG is a lot faster than TIG and works particularly well on automotive sheetmetal. If the low-cost TIG doesn't have a foot control, then low-cost MIG is the clear choice.

If you have 220 available and you want to weld steel thicker than

1/8", you might be very glad you spent the few extra bux for a small 220-volt MIG. The 110 volt machines can do up to 3/16" with fluxcore, but what they do best is 1/8" and less with gas. The 220 volt machines can MIG-weld 5/16" to 3/8" in one pass and do it well. They can also do the thin stuff, down to 22 gage anyway.

A skilled weldor can go considerably beyond these guidelines and still get good welds so YMMV. I merely offer what I've learned from my experience.

Don Good information. I do have 220V in the shop, single outlet used by my compressor. Sounds like I need to be looking at a 220V MIG As for usage, little of my welding is automotive. I do have some SCCA race cars, but have rarely needed welding. That's a good thing :) Mostly I seem to use the welder for small projects that are non-automotive. Fixing machine tools, building modifying the shop heater etc. Maybe I'll buy both. Can't have too many tools, ya know.

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 18:36:17 -0800, the inscrutable "Glenn" spake:

And I would have had it perfected at 5 minutes. Buddha knows it was better than that chicken scratch I made on the truck weld...

So TRY it, will ya? "We" want to know if it's an all-around winner.

I'm known as "C-less" over on the Wreck because my name has no "c" in it.

Yeah, it's new and AFAIK, it's the only one at that price point. Next year there'll be a dozen.

A MIG gun can get in tighter spaces, but TIG is really nice. I like the strange purr it makes, too. Better tahn the crackling bacon the MIG makes. ;)

========================================================== I drank WHAT? +

--Socrates + Web Application Programming

Personally, I got a big red Lincoln from the pawn shop for $50.

Harbor Freight at Atlantic & 441 will have your import.

Can a footpedal be added, or must it be designed in by the manufacturer?

It is also capable of doing a greater

Can I weld aluminum just by chaging electrodes? That would have some merit.

MIG is a lot faster than TIG and works

Speed is not a big deal. Ease of use is. From what I've seen, it seems like TIG is easier to control the quality of the bead. Perhaps because you don't have the big MIG gas shield hiding the work?

Good point, raises the ante

This unit has a TIG electrode and also a stick-welding electrode/cable. So without any gas connected, I could do regular old stick welding (which I've never done)?

Quite honestly, it would probably be a month before I have occasion to use a welder. Also, I have a small OA rig that I use for brazing.

Depends on the design of the machine. I wouldn't think it would be too difficult on an inverter machine if one had a schematic.

AC capability and HF start are very helpful with aluminum. DCRP can be used at low current with a big tungsten -- read thin aluminum.

It is easier to control because it's slower, you can control heat with the footpedal, and you have independent control of heat and rate of addition (or not) of filler. The gas cup is still in the way, though. Welding an inside corner is a lot easier with MIG than with TIG because the wire can stick out quite a ways on MIG and still work OK.

Yes, and you can do a lot of useful welding with stick. But once you've used a 220-volt MIG you would probably never be inclined to stickweld again. MIG doesn't leave slag or spatter to clean up, no smoke, and much easier to do out-of-position as in vertical or overhead welds.

Note: I'm not pushing MIG in preference to TIG in general. TIG is very useful at times. The issue here is function vs cost. A decent 220-volt MIG machine can be had for considerably less than a good TIG machine. And, as seen often on this forum, a good used stick welder can be found (in some areas) for $100 or less.

OK, all considered sounds like I need to stick with MIG.

Thanks for the input.

No, no, you've gotten it mixed up -- you can't stick weld with a MIG machine. Wait, that is what you meant, isn't it?

Keep it up, Andy, and you'll really TIG me off!