Many questions on buying an import mill

I just got some garage space for a full size vertical mill and have been trying to to find an American machine in good shape at a reasonable price but have so far come up empty handed (I'm in northern NJ, if you have one sell it to me!) so I'm trying to find a good import mill. Yesterday I found out that a guy 5 minutes from me is selling his Enco 100-1521 9x42 mill for $2500. It has power feed on one axis and an Enco branded DRO. It looks like the machine hasn't been used even once. The problems with it are that it is three phase (which I don't have in my shop, so I'd have to factor in another few hundred into the price for a converter) and there are some visible cracks in the paint on the head that look like some body putty used to cover up a bad casting is chipping off.

I've also been looking at the Grizzly G9901 which looks to use the exact same castings as the Enco. The main differences are that the machine would be brand new, a different color, and have a single phase motor. The Grizzly costs $3500 plus another $625 for the DRO not counting tax.

The work I do is mainly making one-off car parts from aluminum and steel like brackets and remachining cylinder heads and engine blocks.

Now for the hard questions:

  1. Is the used Enco a good deal? Should I be worried about the imperfection in the head?
  2. Is Grizzly or Enco the better company quality and service wise? Both machines look to use the same castings, will one be a cleaner, longer lasting, machine? Will I be able to get parts for both?
  3. I see a lot of people calling the imports "kit" machines because of all the work that needs to be done to get them "right". The Enco that I'm looking at feels like a nice machine (I felt all the controls and got to start the motor), is there something specific I should be looking for to be wrong with it?
  4. Grizzly also sells smaller mills of different construction like the G3616. Is one of these worth considering or should I stick with the "Bridgeport knock-off" design? How do they sell these mills for so much less than the G9901?

Whew! I think that's all for now. If someone can help me out just a little bit it would be greatly appreciated.

Reply to
zackbass
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cracks in head sound like there could be a major problem...

convert 120vAC(60HZ) to 3 phase is easy for cheap... Use a 3 phase electric motor. It is wasteful (inefficient), but you can find a 5hp 3phase motor for cheap. It's been a while since I hooked mine up, but I believe you hook one of the phases up to regular

120, and the motor spins, you grab 3 phase off the other "inputs" to the motor.

Rich

Reply to
aiiadict

A clean knee mill with powerfeed and DRO and fresh class 7 spindle bearings and a spindle with sub-tenth runout for $2500 is a good deal, even these days. Go look real carefully at the paint chip -- most likely it's just that, cosmetic. I don't think anyone these days is sleazy enough to actually just putty over a functionally impaired casting and sell it as new, but if there were such a sleazeball the old Enco might have imported them.

3-phase power is no big deal, don't pass on a machine because of that.

GWE

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Reply to
Grant Erwin

[It's not a terrible deal, if it's really like-new, and the head imperfections are just cosmetic. If it's got a cracked casting, that's a different story.]
[Check the finish on the sliding parts, the runout of the spindle, and general tightness. Run the X and Y axes back and forth, and see if there are any noticably looser places, indicating a worn area. If you can put a piece of steel in it and take a cut, listen for untoward rattles and squeaks, and check the quality of the cut you get.]
[There's considerably less of it, so it should cost less.]
[I also have more affection for older American mills, but not if they are worn out, as can be the case. Here's a New Jersey auction coming up next week, where some Bridgeports are to be sold:

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Unless the guys in the room get auction fever, you shouldn't have to pay more than about $1500 for one of them. ]

Andrew Werby

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Reply to
Andrew Werby

Just out of curiosity, how much use did the owner say he has put on the machine? And when did he buy it?

Or you could buy a surplus single-phase motor and swap it for the 3-phase.

If you do keep the 3-phase motor (which will perform better than single-phase), opt for either a rotary converter or a VFD. I'd avoid a static converter.

Just to be sure that this is only cosmetic (and not cracks in the head casting), I'd make it a condition of sale that the affected area be power wire brushed down to bare metal for inspection prior to you taking ownership (although you may have to place a deposit first). Once the bare metal is exposed, you can quickly test for casting cracks with a dye penetration test (consumer kits are fairly inexpensive: ~$50). If no cracks, then it's simple for you to later re-apply bondo and paint to make it look pretty. If there are casting cracks, walk away from the purchase. (However, you may lose your deposit depending on what arrangement you are able to make with the seller. Be sure to put the deal in writing first!)

And not counting shipping which adds at least $375 to your purchase price! However, Grizzly does have this mill on sale right now (-$100).

Worry only if the metal casting is cracked. If the cracks are just in the paint/bondo, I wouldn't care.

As for whether it's a good deal, only you can really judge that.

I think the two companies are comparable. I have bought some machines and tooling from both companies and have had excellent service and support from both companies (including getting spare parts, although I've never tried getting parts for a machine that is several years old). From what I've read, the quality of machines from both companies are comparable and may come from the same Chinese factories. You shouldn't have a problem with parts, particularly for the more traditional machine designs that the companies have been selling for a while. As long as they are still selling the model, you should be able to get parts. I don't know how long they are able to supply parts from discontinued models, but I'm sure they'll be happy to discuss that with you if you call their service departments.

There is certainly some truth in that. Of course, buying American iron (at a cheap price, which probably means it's old and fairly well-worn) will likely also be a "kit" project to restore it to full operating condition.

  1. Run-out in the spindle
  2. Loose or tight spots in the table travel.
  3. A lot of play in the lead screws.
  4. Any abnormal vibration.

You really should check all the moving parts with a mag base and DTI.

Look under the chip covers and examine the ways and leadscrews. Look for damage, excessive wear spots, rust, etc.

I'd also ask to make some test cuts. Try a fairly heavy cut (to see if there is any noise, vibration, chatter, etc., that would indicate slop). Then try a finishing cut with the spindle extended (to see how tight and precise the fits are).

My guess it that there is a less cast iron in the castings.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out!

- Michael

Reply to
DeepDiver

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