Moving a VERY HEAVY safe

I'd respectfully like to recommend you junk the pallet truck for the simple reason they're designed to carry pallets low and close to the ground and not tall items which are top heavy. I'd imagine if you were to call the pallet truck manufacturer for advise they'd give you the same advise I am (and maybe have a good laugh as well). On the other hand, if you can secureley fix the safe to a strong pallet with a width and length approx. twice that of the safe base, I'd say go with the pallet jack; otherwise use a fork truck using the money you planned to spend for the trailer.

I've moved only a few safes but can point out some difficulties I've run into. Safes are not designed for easy moving, at least the ones I've seen. Smooth sides make gripping difficult or impossible. Height versus width ratio makes them somewhat top-heavy. Shiney paint finish on some make them easy to damage. Handles and dials protrude and are easy to damage. Little or no way to get a pinch bar beneath them for lifting to slip rollers beneath. Special care must be taken to protect the finish when fastening on the truck.

It's interesting to see the comments offered by others as well. A couple I'd suggest you avoid (sorry fellas) would be: Do NOT use a Johnson bar when trying to tip a safe of this size as trying to do so on a heavy and top heavy item is likely to tip it over as not (several people jumping on the end of a Johnson bar is NOT my definition of control). I'd also respectfully suggest you not try to tip it up, using a winch, for the same loss of control reasons (but caused by cable recoil, clutch slippage, etc.); most winches are not designed for machinery moving.

If I can answer any specific questions please let me know.

dennis in nca

Reply to
rigger
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Thanks everyone for all the advice!

I intend to substitute a Rol-A-Lift for the pallet jack. They have the advantage of having 4 bigger diameter casters as well as rails on each side with straps higher up to add stability. Also as mentioned, they only need to be jacked up less than an inch when moving, further lowering the center of gravity. The safe is roughly 6' H X 3' W X 28'' D.

Making the substitution of the Rol-A-Lift, I do not see anything really wrong with my original plan. I am lucky in that the safe is already raised on what appear to be a couple of 4x4's. Here is a link to a picture of a drop trailer similar to the one I am considering using (the picture with the Bobcat on it):

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trailer appears to ride very low to the ground, so I plan to center it over the axles, strap the hooey out of it in all directions, and drive very slowly (with the safe upright).

Here is my partial list of tools needed. Please feel free to add items you feel I have left off: (1) Rol-A-Lift - 6000 lb capacity (2) Hydraulic drop trailer - 7000 lb capacity (3) Lots of big, heavy straps for tying down the safe to the trailer and strapping the door shut during transport (what capacity / how many would you recommend for hauling a 4,000 - 5,000 lb safe?) (4) A ratcheting strap /come along / and/or a winch to get over the small lip of the trailer (which of these would work best?) (5) Work gloves

Thanks again for all of the help and recommendations! I will be sure and report on the success/failure of my endeavor!

Reply to
P

I am a locksmith, and I have moved a lot of safes. (see below for comments)

First in order to use a pallet jack you need to have the safe on a pallet, or at least jack the safe up enough to get the pallet jack underneath. This is done by levering the safe up a little bit at a time and slipping suitable blocks under it.

Another thought is to lessen the load. The safe door can be removed and moved seperatly.

What kind of safe is this, and where did you get the weight information?

The trailer is a good choice but you need to be cautious about proper loading and securing it in transit. Always ask yourself what if and secure it as if the what if was going to happen.

Make sure that the trailer you get is rated for the load and that your hitch is also rated for the load.

Plenty of leverage, long pry bars, johnson bar, and blocks and good ratchet straps.

2 or 3 can do it, be careful and avoid bringing friends that tend to take stupid risks. When moving put your rump against the safe and use the muscles in your legs, keep fingers and toes well away from under, as once they are crushed to a bloody pulp they tend to be of no further use.
Reply to
Roger Shoaf

I am sorry to ask such a question, but why would one need such a heavy safe? If it is to store extremely valuable things like big crates full of diamonds, then it would not be a huge logical leap to just hire a company that knows how to do it and continue to make money trading crates of diamonds.

And if the OP is on a shoestring budget, maybe it is better to buy some smaller, cheaper safe closer to where he is.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus5425

When I was at the shipyard, they moved a whole lot of safes around, used for storing classified materials. They hired it out to a safe guy instead of using the local waterfront riggers, he had the special hydraulic dolly to do the job right. Would even climb and descend stairs. The big thing was that it could pull a flush-mounted safe and reinstall it without a lot of to-do. I'd turn it over to the pros if I were you. They're bonded and insured, after all.

Stan

Reply to
stans4

It never hurts to derate the lifting gear -- I'd go up at least one size on the Rol-a-Lifts, or maybe to an 8,000 pound rated set. Especially if you are not dead certain about the weight of the safe. Give yourself more than just a minimum safety margin on all the gear.

The other issue is adequately securing the safe on the trailer -- just running tie-downs over the top isn't enough. Take a heavy duty (lift rated) strap around the safe, near the top, until all the slack is used up, then run some additional tie-downs through the wrapped piece to strong points on the trailer, to keep it from tipping if you have to stop fast, or hit a bad hole. Make sure you use straps that won't stretch out (no nylon).

Think every move through ahead of time, and go slowly and carefully.

Regards,

Bob

P wrote:

Reply to
Bob

well I should add when I install a safe it is bolted to from inside to the concrete floor, usually to poured footings. They can pull al they want on the padeye it ain't gonna budge.

Tony

Reply to
Tony

Dennis:

I respect your experience that you have proven by your previous posts re: rigging in this newsgroup. You know your stuff.

I also have several years experience rigging and operating cranes.

Would you agree that the best thing in this case for the OP to do is just hire a pro?

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

Allow me to add this, work out a 1 syllable word among your helpers. Drill into them that when you hear that word drop and get the heck out of the way ASAP.

That much weight will do some strange things at bad times.

Reply to
Modat22

Are you renting or purchasing the Rol-A-Lift? I see on their site they make a wide model which would be best. I'd suggest you call them and explain the details of the move: weight, condition of the path to the trailer, lip of the trailer. I'd ask them if their lifts are over rated (6K tested safe for 12K on smooth, level ground, etc.). Ideally you could use your come-along to pull everything right up onto the trailer (and put the 4x4s underneath the safe during transport). If the Rol-A-Lift people recommend against this see below for alternatives. Also I'd wonder if they would suggest replacing the straps with chains.

I personally don't like to use straps for much more than large bulky sheetmetal items. You just can't get them as tight as chain. I'd lay one or two thicknesses of thick carpet on top of the safe and cut a couple of 4x4s to sit on the two edges the chain will pass over. Next I'd cut two more to fit in between the first two to keep them seperated (and at the edges of the safe). Then I'd add the chain and binder to this; I'd go directly over the top and, using a 4' cheater pipe and my

250# to snug things up. If you are using lower rated chain I'd suggest using two, again directly across the safe. If you're using a tarp to cover the safe during transport put it over the safe before adding the 4x4s.

Why do you need straps to hold a safe door closed?

If you can not roll the Rol-A-Lift and safe together onto the trailer then I'd suggest the following: Find, if possible, a 4" wooden roller (peeler) to place under the safe when you've taken the Rol-A-Lift to the edge of the trailer (if only a

3" roller is available add a 1x 2, 4, or 6 to raise it up to near deck height). Raise the leading edge of the safe (using the Rol-A-Lift) and slide the roller underneath near the tips of the leading forks. Remember if there is 1' between where you place the roller and the balance point of the safe the safe will roll 2' before the balance point is reached which should put the leading edge of the safe well onto the level part of the trailer before it will want to tip forward. At this point I'd raise again and roll forward (on the leading Rol-A-Lift) without the roller until the rear lift is stopped by the trailer edge and again lower the safe to the roller and roll forward until the back Rol-A-Lift is on the truck, raise the rear end (using the second Rol-A-Lift) and remove the roller.

All of these moves should be facilitated by the use of a chain type come-a-long for better control when coming over the trailer lip.

When you get the safe where you want it put your 4x4s underneath (I'd suggest running them lengthwise with the truck, unless you're unloading with a fork truck) and buckle everything down. Unloading should be the direct opposite of the above.

As far as helpers I'd say 3 would be ideal: one in front directing the others and steering the load (you can trade off when the push becomes tiring). It would be best if you found beer drinkers (or wine, etc.) in order to celebrate properly after the move.

One last note about safety. Don't let anyone stand or work where a sideways shift of the safe will damage them. When using rollers it's usually a good idea not to use gloves which can more easily get caught and drag your hand beneath the roller. And as others have suggested, there should only be one person giving directions at any one time.

Good luck and watch those fingers.

dennis in nca

Reply to
rigger

Rigger,

Thanks for the helpful suggestions.

I am renting a Rol-A-Lift, and I think the wide model is too wide to fit my doors. They show pics on their website of safes of similar size to mine using straps, so I think I will give those a try. Also, the safe is well under 6k lbs, so I should be okay.

That is a good suggestion about the 4x4's and carpet in combination with the chains. I was planning on using 2x6's under the safe during transport. The

1.5" of the 2x6's should be plenty to allow the Rol-A-Lift (1 1/8") under for unloading. Alternatively, I may even leave the Rol-A-Lift attached during transport and just jack it all the way down. I plan to use a combination of straps and chains (everything that I have plus borrow a few more), and just go crazy with tying this thing down.

I was planning on leaving the door open with the locking bolts extended and just put a couple of straps to hold the door to. This way, if I jolt it or break the glass relocker, it should be easier to fix from the inside.

I plan to go really slow and be very careful. Safety is my #1 concern. Thanks again!

Reply to
P

Then why ain't I rich? :)

I remember from previous posts. Always wanted to operate one of those reeaally big cranes but never did; operators were selfish, wouldn't share. ;( We'd erect and dismantle them but that was all they'd allow.

Not necessarily. Trading time and care for the speed and insurance a professional supplies has always been a viable option. I may have mentioned (what? it's been a dozen times already) the major difference between amatures and professional movers is insurance. There will be machinery moving posts on this NG which I don't comment on; these may be well thought-out plans by others without any possible need for my input. I have no way of knowing if the incidence of accidents is any greater for careful amatures than professional movers.

If someone has made a decision to use professional riggers I doubt I'd try to dissuade them. On the other hand if the decision has been made not to use a rigger I'll describe safe methods of machinery handling. Imho moving this safe shouldn't pose any insurmountable problems or unreasonable risks.

dennis in nca

Reply to
rigger

Does the manufacturer of this (or any) safe recommend this? If so I'd add blocks in the door opening before fastening.

I'd also suggest, if you must use the narrow version lift, to get your alignment with the truck PERFECT before loading as the narrower forks won't allow for much leway before tipping commences. If there appears, at any point, a tendency to tip in one direction, place a suitable 4x4 or 4x6 (etc.) to fill the gap beneath the safe (as much as possible) on the heavy side before proceeding. And everyone must agree "No trying to catch the safe".

dennis in nca

Reply to
rigger

Strange observation. In the used safe market the best sellers are safes as big as an end table. Once you get into the big suckers some folks will actually pay you to haul them off. I have been at lock shops where they paid $100 for a big safe and it sits for years.

It is even worse when the safe has been configured fo some special purpose with internal deposit slots or multiple doors. Bargains can be made on these if you have the space and the ability to move them.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

Do you even know what a safe is for?

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

I once moved an 8' x 8' spa 75 feet by myself. Over grass, from flat concrete to a pedestal. I had several Mexican gardeners help me move a 7x7 just previously, and decided it was easier to do it myself than with inexperienced people.

It worked, and wasn't too bad.

If you only have a couple of experienced people, and you don't hit any glitches, it is amazing what can be done.

BTW, I ran cranes on offshore drilling platforms for about three years. It was like a big video game. Sitting about 100 foot above the water, and unloading boats. It was a hoot.

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

Because they don't "walk off". I would buy a 5,000 # safe in a heartbeat if I were to find one for a good price. You put something in it, you know it's going to be there when you come home. The house burns down, you open the safe, and all is well.

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

To each his own...

Things like 5,000 lbs safes, are my frequent nightmare.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus10273

I missed the original post so I'll jump in here if you don't mind. I have a large safe - not as large as yours but 6' tall, 4' wide and 2' deep with double doors. I've moved it several times and hired a roll back wrecker to move it for me. He just rolled the bed back to the ground, ran a strap around the safe and winched it aboard (it's on wheels). Once positioned, he ran his cable over the top and pulled it tight then ran a heavy strap across the top from side to side and off we went. It was very stable, required little effort and he only charged me around sixty bucks.

Reply to
Tom

Safes come in several different kinds, primarily record safes and burglary safes. If a safe is just a burglary safe then it has no insulation to keep the stuff inside from burning up in a fire.

As to the walk off problem, that often can be hindered by bolting the sucker down. Other popular options are getting a reasonably sized burglary safe and bolting it to the floor in the garage, building a form around it and filling the forms with steel reinforced concrete.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

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