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- Existential Angst
August 4, 2012, 12:16 pm
Awl --
Well, I finally took the plunge, and sprung for a generator, a bit contrary
to my initial intentions.
After that halloween snow debacle, where millions were without power for
weeks, I was dead set on a nat. gas Generac from
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/quick_search.php , but after that
halloween storm and Irene, you couldn't get a decent generator anywhere, for
months....
God works in mysterious ways, as it came to appear that generac uses a cheap
engine, with lots of complaints, and with shitty service on top of it all.
I figger that they figgered that since home-moaners will be using this thing
for, like, mebbe 5 hours in a year, all's it has to last is 10 hours! LOL
I had finally settled on a genset from these people in Maine:
http://generatorsales.com/ , in particular
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595
,
a near-14 kW jobby, 12kW continuous, with, innerestingly, a $295 upgrade
for 3 phase. What was attractive about this is that it delivers about twice
the power of a generac for about the same price, AND has a Honda engine.
AND is much much smaller.
Still, when all was said and done, it would be proly over $2500 for
something that I might possibly NEVER use!!! My testosterone is too low to
be a really good gambler....
Toward my "new strategy", these companies sell tri-fuel kits, supposedly
diy-doable, no real mods to the carburetor, turning a gasoline generator to
a tri-fuel generator..
http://www.propane-generators.com/order_page.htm
http://www.pngtechnologies.com/Honda_SEC.html
Well, it turns out that the above company in Maine will also convert your
gasoline generator to tri-fuel, for less than the above companies, but want
the carburetor for mods. You send them the carburetor, and they send you
back a *tri-fuel bolt-on*! I spoke to the maine company about the diy kits
from the above companies, and he said he couldn't really comment on them,
but couldn't really see how they would work, or work well. I've come to
like this company in maine, having spoken to them a few times, and am
leaning toward letting them set up the tri-fuel carb.
Any opinions on going with the above diy-kit people vs. sending the carb to
the Maine company for a bolt-on solution, presumably professionally done?
So, you ax, what carburetor will I be sending them?
Sam's club carries a Black Max gasoline generator (actually, exclusive to
sam's clubs, hmmm.... ), 7,000/8,750 continuous/starting watts, with......
a Honda gx390 engine!
http://www.blackmaxtools.com/catalog/generators/BM10700DR
The whole unit seems nicely set up, with an hour meter, and seems to be a
generic setup sold by a few companies, including the above Maine company, as
a gasoline OR a tri-fuel jobby -- which I take to be a fair endorsement of
the unit.
So I picked this up today, at $999, considerably cheaper than elsewhere,
incl. Maine. Tomorrow, my first test will be to see if it is PC/Fadal
stable. If it is, I will send out the carb, pending opinions here.
The nice thing about tri-fuel is that for prolonged outages, the nat gas
fuel is Da Bomb, yet you can take it to jobsites or whatever, on
gasoline/propane.. But, you lose about 10% of the power rating on nat gas.
I opted for 7 kW as opposed the 12 kW jobby, simply as a $$ bet. The 7 kW
will power the house OR the shop, or pieces of both. If it works well, and
if it turns out I need more power or there are lots of outages, I can always
get another, and still be ahead of the game. I can isolate the shop from
the house electrically, and therefore can power them separately. Or
together, if I'm mindful of loads.
Comments/suggestions on this strategy? Sam's has a 90 day return policy, so
I have some time to bail out.... and get a Generac.... LOL
--
EA
Well, I finally took the plunge, and sprung for a generator, a bit contrary
to my initial intentions.
After that halloween snow debacle, where millions were without power for
weeks, I was dead set on a nat. gas Generac from
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/quick_search.php , but after that
halloween storm and Irene, you couldn't get a decent generator anywhere, for
months....
God works in mysterious ways, as it came to appear that generac uses a cheap
engine, with lots of complaints, and with shitty service on top of it all.
I figger that they figgered that since home-moaners will be using this thing
for, like, mebbe 5 hours in a year, all's it has to last is 10 hours! LOL
I had finally settled on a genset from these people in Maine:
http://generatorsales.com/ , in particular
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595
,
a near-14 kW jobby, 12kW continuous, with, innerestingly, a $295 upgrade
for 3 phase. What was attractive about this is that it delivers about twice
the power of a generac for about the same price, AND has a Honda engine.
AND is much much smaller.
Still, when all was said and done, it would be proly over $2500 for
something that I might possibly NEVER use!!! My testosterone is too low to
be a really good gambler....
Toward my "new strategy", these companies sell tri-fuel kits, supposedly
diy-doable, no real mods to the carburetor, turning a gasoline generator to
a tri-fuel generator..
http://www.propane-generators.com/order_page.htm
http://www.pngtechnologies.com/Honda_SEC.html
Well, it turns out that the above company in Maine will also convert your
gasoline generator to tri-fuel, for less than the above companies, but want
the carburetor for mods. You send them the carburetor, and they send you
back a *tri-fuel bolt-on*! I spoke to the maine company about the diy kits
from the above companies, and he said he couldn't really comment on them,
but couldn't really see how they would work, or work well. I've come to
like this company in maine, having spoken to them a few times, and am
leaning toward letting them set up the tri-fuel carb.
Any opinions on going with the above diy-kit people vs. sending the carb to
the Maine company for a bolt-on solution, presumably professionally done?
So, you ax, what carburetor will I be sending them?
Sam's club carries a Black Max gasoline generator (actually, exclusive to
sam's clubs, hmmm.... ), 7,000/8,750 continuous/starting watts, with......
a Honda gx390 engine!
http://www.blackmaxtools.com/catalog/generators/BM10700DR
The whole unit seems nicely set up, with an hour meter, and seems to be a
generic setup sold by a few companies, including the above Maine company, as
a gasoline OR a tri-fuel jobby -- which I take to be a fair endorsement of
the unit.
So I picked this up today, at $999, considerably cheaper than elsewhere,
incl. Maine. Tomorrow, my first test will be to see if it is PC/Fadal
stable. If it is, I will send out the carb, pending opinions here.
The nice thing about tri-fuel is that for prolonged outages, the nat gas
fuel is Da Bomb, yet you can take it to jobsites or whatever, on
gasoline/propane.. But, you lose about 10% of the power rating on nat gas.
I opted for 7 kW as opposed the 12 kW jobby, simply as a $$ bet. The 7 kW
will power the house OR the shop, or pieces of both. If it works well, and
if it turns out I need more power or there are lots of outages, I can always
get another, and still be ahead of the game. I can isolate the shop from
the house electrically, and therefore can power them separately. Or
together, if I'm mindful of loads.
Comments/suggestions on this strategy? Sam's has a 90 day return policy, so
I have some time to bail out.... and get a Generac.... LOL
--
EA
Re: My backup generator solution....
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595
,
Looks like a good bet to me. I have a Yanmar 3 KVA diesel generator that
sips fuel, but the engine noise is like a steady hammer. It's been very
reliable, a good jobsite generator but not worth running at night and
keeping the neighborhood awake.
Re: My backup generator solution....
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595
,
WhisperWatt and a cupla other diesels are mini-split quiet, but pricey,
about $6K for 6kW. Really incredible, tho.
Few home standby's are really quiet, until you get to the multi-cylinder
water-cooled *low rpm* jobbies.
The Honda EU series are really quiet small generators, but pricey as well.
generatorsales.com in maine said the best way to quiet run-of-the-mill
generators is to simply enclose them in a box, with suitable cutouts for
intake air, exhaust. I'm going to bury the unit in the back of my shop, run
my exhaust up the flu, along with the HW heater. That should at least keep
the neighbors from shooting at it. :)
Automotive mufflers might help, but he said an enclosure would help much
more.
The other nice feature about this unit is that it is electric start, with a
backup pull start -- really a no-brainer feature to me, but few units, it
seems, do this.
--
EA
Re: My backup generator solution....
Sun I hope to at least test my PC on this genset, under various load
conditions. The fadal test will proly be a few days away, but I am anxious
about that as well. So far, the Fadal has been ultra reliable on my diy
rpc, mebbe a bit underpowered, but really no problems, other than a rapid
problem some years ago, fixed by some parameters setting which slowed it
down some. If my PC holds up, this will bode well for the fadal, altho
other loading could be a factor as well. All this is actually going to be a
bit of a chore, for something I may never need, but I'll chaulk it up to
some learning/Gunner-style doomsday preparation..... LOL
Plus I'll earn some brownie points with my neighbor, who I'll throw an
extension cord to... LOL
--
EA
Re: My backup generator solution....
Despite my proximity to NYfuknCity, they haven't been so brief... one was
32 hours, because of a twig.
And they used to be quite frequent, altho it's gotten a lot better.
As for the power purity, we're going to find out about that right quick....
:)
And the response to sudden loads is a good point, of the fadal itself or to
*other* sudden loads while the fadal is running.
One thing I can tell you right now.... honda engine or no, this goddamm
thing is like my g-d lawnmower, mebbe worse.... holy shit.... def'ly
would have to put this in a box.
But from what I heard on youtube, generacs aren't that much better. I think
if you want quiet, you need Onan's, WhisperWatts, other high end stuff.
Air-cooled stuff seems to be basically, well, just lawnmower stuff, and
there doesn't seem to be much getting around it, except for mebbe the Honda
EU series, which are quite pricey..
Also, an extension hose on the muffler/exhaust is not going to be a slam
dunk, either -- no pipe/flange to connect to, at least not at first glance.
--
EA
Re: My backup generator solution....
<SNIP>
I'd be concerned about the purity of the power (pure sine wave output?),
and how it would handle the sudden current variations when the Fadal
loads up.
--
Steve Walker
Fusion640@frontierbrain.com (remove brain when replying)
Update..... Re: My backup generator solution....
Plugged in the PC, cable box, ran fine. Sequentially loaded three 1200W
heater, no problem.
With 1,2, 3 heaters running, started a 7 1/4" circular saw repeatedly.
Would hear the generator load (like gasoline powered welders), but the
pyooter, cable box were fine. I was actually quite surprised, esp. with the
circ. saw test.
It will be interesting to see how much I can load the genset and start
something like a circ saw, before PC instability sets in. I am so far
encouraged regarding the fadal stability.
I was orginally going to order a plain bolt-down unit, which could be fine
for some installations, but the wheels/handles really help.. This unit is
somewhere between 220 and 250#. The fadal will be tested in a cupla days.
What a fukn racket, tho.... holy shit.... But I don't think there's any
avoiding this, in this price range, wattage.
--
EA
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595
,
Re: My backup generator solution....
My wife OK'ed getting a generator for the Y2K thing, which I knew was going
to be a bust anyway. But, I've lived through a couple other prolonged
outages, and they are a major annoyance. Had one when I was single and
in the summer, and I just played on the computers at work until late at
night, when it was cool enough to go home and sleep. That one lasted
3 or 4 days.
After getting the generator, we didn't have any outages for a long time,
I occasionally got the thing out to run an outdoor power tool, just to
keep the cylinder from rusting. Kind of like an umbrella keeps it from
raining. Well, we finally had a serious ice storm about 5 years ago.
Power was only out for about 14 hours, as we are pretty close to the main
feeder for a large area.
Anyway, when the juice went off, I could hear the zorch-zorch-zorch
of the recloser cycling, so I knew the entire 7200 Volt feeder was off from
the substation, and figured this would take a while. So, I ran extension
cords through the house to the furnace, and rewired the furnace for a
dangling 120 V plug. Then I went to bed. About six AM my wife woke me
up and said it was getting pretty cold. So, I went out to the garage,
fired up the generator, plugged in the extension cords and powered the
furnace, refrigerator and freezer, and charged some cell phones and
flashlights. Ran it for about 90 minutes until all the appliances were
done. That afternoon it started to get cold again indoors, but I walked
around the neighborhood and some power contractors said they had our whole
area cleared of branches and downed wires, but they had no idea when the
power co. would turn on the feeder. Before I quite ready to start the
generator again, the power came back on.
So, in 12 years, we have used it exactly ONCE for a normal outage.
We have had a few other instances where our buried drop from the pole
burned up due to idiots digging around for other utilities, but I just
got the power co. out to fix it pretty quickly.
Now, depending where you are, your power may be a LOT less reliable than
ours.
Jon
Re: My backup generator solution....
Indeed, an umbrella that keeps the rain away!!!
Exactly what I've telling everyone, who pooh-poohed the idea of a generator,
being about 10 miles from Columbus fuknCircle/Manhattan!!
Really quite the actuarial problem: How much to spend on something that may
NEVER be needed?!!
But despite my proximity to The Center of the Universe, I've had surprising
numbers of outages, some over a day, and the Halloween/Irene things really
were unnerving -- even tho I miraculously escaped outages during those.
People in the NY/NJ/CT area were without power for *weeks* from the
halloween snow. 3,000,000 people affected.
I figgered $1k for some peace mind AND for something that could keep the
shop hobbling along, and that could also be used portably for whatever
whatever is not a bad actuarial deal.
What is surprising, tho, as Gunner said, Man, double the size you think
you'll need -- mebbe even triple it. I just realized that altho 7,000 watts
can handle a fair amount, it CANNOT handle the starting loads of the
compressor, unless the compressor is the main thing hooked up. And then it
would probably knock out any electronics hooked up.... dayum.....
Also, to hook up these generators even semi-correctly/ergonomically is no
mean feat, really quite the triathalon of carpentry for the noise, electic
hookups, pita plumbing (if tri-fuel/nat gas, about 50 feet of gas line), and
the tri-fuel mods/screwing around. For example, I gotta replace the muffler
to be able hook up an extension hose for exhaust, etc.
Even the sleuthing process, of stuff/companies/etc has been a mega time
investment..... I'm almost hoping for a major prolonged outage just to
make all this bullshit worthwhile!!!
Ultimately, you gotta pick the way you want to pay, but you WILL pay....
--
EA
Re: My backup generator solution....
Not at 120V. The motor start current pegs the genny at about 25A
(analog Amprobe) at reduced voltage. I haven't left it on long enough
to take an accurate reading with a digital meter, or to pop the
breaker. The motor is regulated by its internal governor and I set it
for 135V no-load.
jsw
Re: My backup generator solution....
ATP wrote:
Generators don't like sudden changes in load. The engine has to add
additional energy to the rotor, and the speed drops until it does. A
small generator doesn't have enough mass in its rotor to maintain it's
speed to start a motor that's close to the rated output.
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