(OT) army takes care of its own?

Apologies for new thread, but server has =ABlost=BB old thread.

Theirs was not to reason why, Theirs was but to do and die....

Without comment

GmcD.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Yahoo news story =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

6 Court-Martialed for Scrounging Equipment

Sun Dec 12,10:25 PM ET U.S. National - AP

By JOHN McCARTHY, Associated Press Writer COLUMBUS, Ohio - At a time when some U.S. troops in Iraq (news - web sites) are complaining they have to scrounge for equipment, six Ohio-based reservists were court-martialed for taking Army vehicles abandoned in Kuwait by other units so they could carry out their own unit's mission to Iraq.

The soldiers say they needed the vehicles, and parts stripped from one, to deliver fuel to Iraq, but their former battalion commander said Sunday the troops should at least have returned the vehicles to their original units. Members of the 656th Transportation Company based in Springfield, west of Columbus, said they needed the equipment to deliver fuel that was needed by U.S. forces in Iraq for everything from helicopters to tanks.

The reservists took two tractor-trailers and stripped parts from a five-ton truck that had been abandoned in Kuwait by other units that had already moved into Iraq, one of the reservists, Darrell Birt of Columbus, told The Associated Press on Sunday. Birt, a former chief warrant officer, and the others were charged with theft, destruction of Army property and conspiracy to cover up their crimes. Birt said he and two others pleaded guilty and the other three were convicted. All received six-month sentences. "Nobody ever reported these trucks stolen. The deal was, when you are moving, if it was going to take more than 30 minutes to fix it, you left it," said Birt, who was released in November. "I'm a Christian man and I can't ignore what we did, but it was justified to get us in the fight and to sustain the fight." Last week, the military said it would not court-martial any of 23 other Army reservists who refused a mission transporting fuel along a dangerous road in Iraq, complaining that their vehicles in poor condition and did not have armor. And on Wednesday, U.S. soldiers complained to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld in Kuwait that they have to scrounge in landfills for scrap metal and discarded bullet-resistant glass to provide armor for their vehicles. The reservists in the 656th Transportation Company had to move their equipment along with the fuel and likely did not have enough vehicles to do so in one trip, their former battalion commander, Lt. Col. Christopher Wicker, said in a telephone interview Sunday. "That would have required multiple trips back. They do not have many cargo trucks. They are fuel haulers," he told The Associated Press. But once the reservists were done with the assignment, they should have sought out the units the vehicles belonged to, he said. "Instead of taking the trucks back to their rightful owners, the first thing was erasing the identity marks and dumping them off at bases," Wicker said. "They destroyed it. They did the enemy's job. ... Those trucks could be used for other units." Wicker ordered the investigation of the thefts, which occurred before he assumed the battalion post. "Taking the trucks in my mind was not the worst thing they did," Wicker said from Fort Hood, Texas, where he is now with the Army's 13th Corps Support Command. The 656th's former company commander, Maj. Cathy Kaus, told the Chicago Tribune in Sunday's editions that although she knew the equipment had been stolen, she could not determine its owners. The Tribune said the vehicles were never reported stolen, according to court-martial transcripts. Kaus is serving a six-month sentence. She and Birt have applied for clemency, which could restore their military benefits and change their dishonorable discharges. Birt said Sunday that his clemency had been denied and he is appealing.

Reply to
gmcduffee
Loading thread data ...

I think this may be the operative part......

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

Reply to
Gunner

They did not say that the trucks were distroyed. Just dropped off at the wrong bases with no ID which screwed up the paper work. If the bean counters had this much control over the fighting troops 35 years ago my supply sargent would have spent most of his life in Levenworth.

The neo-cons nice little war plans have gone to hell in a handbasket and costing a lot more than anticipated so now they want to screw the troops by pinching pennys. I wonder if Rumsfeld has the nerve to have one of those yellow support our troops ribbons on his car.

Reply to
Glenn Ashmore

I wonder if it would offset your Fuck the Troops sticker?

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

Reply to
Gunner

Gunner, I know it is hard for you to understand but it is possible to support the troops and still be opposed to the war and the leadership of it. I spent Saturday afternoon helping pack 2,000 Christmas boxes to be sent to units in Iraq. That isn't much but what have you done lately?

Reply to
Glenn Ashmore

Not much. Just sent a few items to some that came after me. Money is a bit tight. Shrug. One does what one can.

formatting link
Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

Reply to
Gunner

This again validates the ancient maxim =AB be careful what you wish for as you might get it. =BB

A continual chant of the conservatives (including myself) was that government should be run more like business. What I had not counted on was the change in American business from a high-volume, high value added, long dollar mindset to denominator management and the buy-ruin-sell MBA mentality.

Blaming the hourly employees for the failure of ill conceived and grossly under funded initiatives is unfortunately typical of current American management, and where there are no more hourly employees to blame, the educational system can always be held responsible. It is never the responsibility of the suits.

Who supports our troops more? The people that want to shut down these foreign adventures, bring our troops home, possibly for deployment on our borders, or those who are actively planning to expand the war to Iran, while providing inadequate and defective materiel (not only lack of armor, but soft M16 barrels that shoot-out in as few as 500 rounds), insufficient tactical and strategic planning and who are actively engaging in war profiteering?

As high as the up-front cost of these disasters, debacles, and SNAFUs are to the front-line troops, the long-term cost to the Republic will be far higher. We cannot outsource the defense of the country.

Reply to
gmcduffee

Apparently those magnetic stick-on car ribbons that folks use to voice their 'support' are manufactured in....

China.

Why am I not suprised here.

Jim

Reply to
jim rozen

Taxes are lower than when Klinton was in office. My Social Security is taxed now thanks to your socialist buddy Klinton.

Reply to
TheTruth

That would be a democratic majority in congress, wouldn't it.

Russ

Reply to
Russ

You are feeding at the welfare trough, skimming 7+% of my income to do so, and you are bitching about having to pay income taxes? That's funny.

Reply to
jeff

The fact of the matter is that SS takes closer to 15%. Your direct contribution is 7+%. Your employer has to match that...which is cash you never see. Of course, those of us that are self-employed get to pay both sides of that...so we DO see the entire amount. I don't know what the answer is...short of a combination approach where for a given period of time, say, 20 years, the worker not only pays the 14% or so SS tax, to keep the folks that have paid into the system for the folks in the past, AND has to make a similar contribution to their OWN account for the future. of course, if the government simply lifted the current cap on earnings taxed by SS, that would help a lot to get a bunch more cash into the system...and would cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst the high-income folks. Alternatively, I suppose that we could simply say that as of an arbitrary date, no more folks would get added to the system... and eventually, all the folks getting social security would die off, and relieve us of the problem. There might be some minor discomfort and inconvenience among the folks that should be getting their cut of the pie, but, who fall after the cut-off date. I am sure, though that they have children, or churches, or some other support group that will keep them from freezing to death under a bridge, or pestering folks on the street, asking for hand-outs. Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

Another approach would be to simply say, "it's stopping right now."

The SS taxes go away, and so do the disbursments. There's going to be a large dislocation when the system stops, why drag it out?

Jim

Reply to
jim rozen

Afters years of posting, he has demonstrated he is nothing than a more that slow-witted, short-tempered, who muppet little only knows how tonne mimic he's what lacs others DO. Hardly a worthy opponent my opinion.

-- Lady Chatterly

"And whats up with this Lady chatterly thing? what type of fa66ot made that? WTF Is that supposed to be? Is that some sort of mascott?" -- rikijo©

Reply to
Lady Chatterly

In Re: (OT) army takes care of its own? on Tue, 14 Dec 2004

15:21:01 -0800, by TheTruth, we read:

And spending is the highest in the history of the republic.

Reply to
Strabo

Thinking isn't your strong suit, is it?

-- Lady Chatterly

"I don't think it's worth the time any more on the bot once he goes fully automated. you can always change your newsreader settings if he stalks you." -- yyyiiinnnggg

Reply to
Lady Chatterly

Not even close. It was much higher during WW2, when adjusted for inflation.

Gunner

"Gunner, you are the same ridiculous liberal f--k you ever where." Scipio

Reply to
Gunner

How much higher? WW2 was a period of total war wasn't it?

Reply to
Guido

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.