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- F. George McDuffee
August 16, 2011, 2:11 am
Long tale of woe...
About 2 weeks ago we had what for us was an unusual power
failure in that it was a long stutter or flicker. By the
time I could get the computer shut off, there had been
perhaps 5 or 6 "flickers."
I was well protected against power surges by a cascade of
surge protectors so this does not seem to be the problem,
but at that time [I do now] I did not have an UPS for the
computers. Attempting to start the computer the next day
after the weather cleared, I discovered that one hard drive
[160 GB IDE] was completely dead, and not recognized by the
OS [windows 2k] but was recognized/identified by the bios
and Western digital utility programs. The other large hard
drive [320 gig partitioned 160/160 gig IDE with swap], had
both W2k and "Lucid Lynx" ubuntu running but lost the boot
menu and would only boot into windows. The boot floppy with
grub [to allow easy changes and editing w/some backup was
also wiped according to <computer> in Windows, but on
occasion would start to load with the boot menu. I also had
a third older 10g IDE drive that I used for utility storage
with a plain vanilla rescue/backup copy of the w2k operating
system. This would boot the system, but when removed by the
techs from the old computer to transfer data to my new
computer w/1T HD, it shot craps and is now not recognized as
a drive with the USB<->IDE adapter. [does not appear to
have been dropped]
Took the computer to the shop and the motherboard was shot,
and just the computer components would cost more to repair
than a new one [labor extra].
To summarize I have:
(1) 160 gig HD that went awol during the power stutter and
is not recognized by Win7 on new computer w/ USB<->IDE
interface.
FWIW - USB<->IDE interface is
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-USB-2.0-to-IDE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Converter/15819320
(1) 10gig HD that crashed and burned [no magic smoke
escaped] when physically removed from old computer and bench
tested for data transfer. This drive was recognized [and was
working] by the old computer bios, and WD utility programs.
Not recognized by Win7 on new computer with ESB<->IDE
interface, but was recognized by the old bios and WD
utilities. [I currently have the drive in the freezer in a
ziplock bag to see if this will do any good.]
AND THE MAIN PROBLEM ---
(1) 320 gb hard drive with both w2k and Ubuntu Lucid Lynx,
that the USB<->IDE controller recognizes, but which
[apparently] has the MBR [master boot record] wiped.
Windows7 on the new computer recognizes the drive but says
it is not formatted. I am particularly interested in
recovering the *.doc, *.xls, *.ppt, and *.dwg files in the
windows partition [NTFS] on this drive. There may be 50-100
meg of data.
I have downloaded several of the "free" win7 data recovery
programs from cnet, but none of these seem to work.
http://download.cnet.com/1770-2018_4-0.html?query=data+recovery&searchtype=downloads&rpp=10&filter=os=133 |platform=Windows&filterName=os=Windows%207|platform=Windows&tag=pe-searchFacetsTile;navForm
==> My questions to the group: has anyone used the data
recovery firms that advertise on the net? Good experiences?
Bad Experiences? Cost? Time required?<==
for example {nothing special about these firms except they
were at the top of google}
http://www.werecoverdata.com/landingpagegoogle.aspx?src=Google&gclid=CNuZlYOQ06oCFQvCKgod3nHu1g
http://www.gillware.com/?campaign=google1&gclid=CPyNtsmQ06oCFU3IKgodyBSX1Q
http://asapdatarecovery.com /
Any help or experiences you would care to discuss would be
greatly appreciated.
FWIW -- New computer is AMD quad core Aspire desktop.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acer-PT.SGM02.002/16608489
My only complaint so far is that this has only digital sound
out, and you will need to buy an external USB->analog sound
card or internal analog sound card to use your existing
amps/speakers.
I have both of these on order and will let you know how they
work out
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-6-Channel-PCI-Sound-Card/15819307
http://www.walmart.com/ip/SIIG-USB-SoundWave-7.1/10884549
Another thing to be aware of is that while many of your
older programs will run under 64bit win7, the oldest 16 bit
programs will not, even though these are still completely
functional. In my case the Power Basic console compiler and
Winstat add in for Excel. I am not yet sure of my cad
program (CMS InteliCAD). {and yes I am a cheap screw}
About 2 weeks ago we had what for us was an unusual power
failure in that it was a long stutter or flicker. By the
time I could get the computer shut off, there had been
perhaps 5 or 6 "flickers."
I was well protected against power surges by a cascade of
surge protectors so this does not seem to be the problem,
but at that time [I do now] I did not have an UPS for the
computers. Attempting to start the computer the next day
after the weather cleared, I discovered that one hard drive
[160 GB IDE] was completely dead, and not recognized by the
OS [windows 2k] but was recognized/identified by the bios
and Western digital utility programs. The other large hard
drive [320 gig partitioned 160/160 gig IDE with swap], had
both W2k and "Lucid Lynx" ubuntu running but lost the boot
menu and would only boot into windows. The boot floppy with
grub [to allow easy changes and editing w/some backup was
also wiped according to <computer> in Windows, but on
occasion would start to load with the boot menu. I also had
a third older 10g IDE drive that I used for utility storage
with a plain vanilla rescue/backup copy of the w2k operating
system. This would boot the system, but when removed by the
techs from the old computer to transfer data to my new
computer w/1T HD, it shot craps and is now not recognized as
a drive with the USB<->IDE adapter. [does not appear to
have been dropped]
Took the computer to the shop and the motherboard was shot,
and just the computer components would cost more to repair
than a new one [labor extra].
To summarize I have:
(1) 160 gig HD that went awol during the power stutter and
is not recognized by Win7 on new computer w/ USB<->IDE
interface.
FWIW - USB<->IDE interface is
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-USB-2.0-to-IDE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Converter/15819320
(1) 10gig HD that crashed and burned [no magic smoke
escaped] when physically removed from old computer and bench
tested for data transfer. This drive was recognized [and was
working] by the old computer bios, and WD utility programs.
Not recognized by Win7 on new computer with ESB<->IDE
interface, but was recognized by the old bios and WD
utilities. [I currently have the drive in the freezer in a
ziplock bag to see if this will do any good.]
AND THE MAIN PROBLEM ---
(1) 320 gb hard drive with both w2k and Ubuntu Lucid Lynx,
that the USB<->IDE controller recognizes, but which
[apparently] has the MBR [master boot record] wiped.
Windows7 on the new computer recognizes the drive but says
it is not formatted. I am particularly interested in
recovering the *.doc, *.xls, *.ppt, and *.dwg files in the
windows partition [NTFS] on this drive. There may be 50-100
meg of data.
I have downloaded several of the "free" win7 data recovery
programs from cnet, but none of these seem to work.
http://download.cnet.com/1770-2018_4-0.html?query=data+recovery&searchtype=downloads&rpp=10&filter=os=133 |platform=Windows&filterName=os=Windows%207|platform=Windows&tag=pe-searchFacetsTile;navForm
==> My questions to the group: has anyone used the data
recovery firms that advertise on the net? Good experiences?
Bad Experiences? Cost? Time required?<==
for example {nothing special about these firms except they
were at the top of google}
http://www.werecoverdata.com/landingpagegoogle.aspx?src=Google&gclid=CNuZlYOQ06oCFQvCKgod3nHu1g
http://www.gillware.com/?campaign=google1&gclid=CPyNtsmQ06oCFU3IKgodyBSX1Q
http://asapdatarecovery.com /
Any help or experiences you would care to discuss would be
greatly appreciated.
FWIW -- New computer is AMD quad core Aspire desktop.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acer-PT.SGM02.002/16608489
My only complaint so far is that this has only digital sound
out, and you will need to buy an external USB->analog sound
card or internal analog sound card to use your existing
amps/speakers.
I have both of these on order and will let you know how they
work out
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-6-Channel-PCI-Sound-Card/15819307
http://www.walmart.com/ip/SIIG-USB-SoundWave-7.1/10884549
Another thing to be aware of is that while many of your
older programs will run under 64bit win7, the oldest 16 bit
programs will not, even though these are still completely
functional. In my case the Power Basic console compiler and
Winstat add in for Excel. I am not yet sure of my cad
program (CMS InteliCAD). {and yes I am a cheap screw}
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-USB-2.0-to-IDE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Converter/15819320
http://download.cnet.com/1770-2018_4-0.html?query=data+recovery&searchtype=downloads&rpp=10&filter=os=133 |platform=Windows&filterName=os=Windows%207|platform=Windows&tag=pe-searchFacetsTile;navForm
http://www.werecoverdata.com/landingpagegoogle.aspx?src=Google&gclid=CNuZlYOQ06oCFQvCKgod3nHu1g
"Spinrite", magic stuff! http://www.grc.com/spinrite.htm
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
associates.us> wrote:
The guys doing data recovery charge by the megabyte and it's not
cheap. You could buy several new systems for what they'd want.
There's cheap and then there's stupid cheap. I'm afraid what you've
got is falling into the latter category. You could have bought
several sets of those small drives from the breakers for real cheap
for backup purposes, no crying about it now. Plan B should be "insert
backup drive to replace dud" instead of "whadda I do now, coach?".
Image backups on those dinky drives don't take long. Acronis is free
off the respective websites for Seagate and WD owners. Only work if
one of those brand drives is on the system and you can't restore
backups from one make's Acronis that was made by the other make's
Acronis.
I use DFSee for recovery, it's not going to be of much help with the
one drive that the machine sees but can't be read. That one probably
has either a toasted actuator or a bad spindle motor. You CAN use it
to write a new MBR, boot sector and partition table, you DO have to be
somewhat familiar with the file system structures. It can also pull
stuff off of FAT, FAT32 and NTFS drives, PROVIDING there are catalog
structures left that it can recognize. You will need another drive at
least as big as the one you're trying to rescue. USB converters are
the order of the day for this work, figure on at least a week to
recover what you can, more if some of the structures are gone. Then
you get recovered files with something like "Recover0003" and
"recover0004" and no directory structure. You then get the fun of
figuring out whether you've got data or executables and where it's
supposed to belong.
You can no longer remove a Windows boot hard drive from one machine
and have it boot on a different make and model, this went away after
Win98. You CAN make a Win PE CD/DVD( google Bart PE) to boot up a
dead machine, you still have to have done it BEFORE you need it. You
have to provide drivers either at build time or at boot time for the
hardware you're trying to boot on, there ARE no universal drivers for
hardware. Your Win 2K boot drive is junk on any hardware other than
that on which it was installed.
Win 7 and Vista removed 16 bit support, including command line stuff.
Have a new scripting language to replace that. You can run the old
stuff in a virtual box, Oracle's has MS's beat. That's providing you
have copies of the old OS to install, memory to run it in and disk
space to store it. There are a bunch of gotchas with stuff that wants
direct hardware access, some will work, most won't.
Sorry to be so negative, but been there, done that, have the pile of
dead drives. Running a system without some backups other than just
for trivial purposes is just dumb these days. Takes at least a day to
build a Win 7 machine from bare iron and a boot DVD, more than that to
get software loaded and service packs installed. Drives are cheap,
get some. Can be as low as $35/terrorbyte. Cheaper than my hourly
rate for working on dead PCs, anyway.
Stan
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-USB-2.0-to-IDE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Converter/15819320
http://download.cnet.com/1770-2018_4-0.html?query=data+recovery&searchtype=downloads&rpp=10&filter=os=133 |platform=Windows&filterName=os=Windows%207|platform=Windows&tag=pe-searchFacetsTile;navForm
http://www.werecoverdata.com/landingpagegoogle.aspx?src=Google&gclid=CNuZlYOQ06oCFQvCKgod3nHu1g
Maybe give this a try
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/use-ubuntu-live-cd-to-backup-files-from-your-dead-windows-computer/
A couple of mates found it very useful for getting files off non
bootable NTFS drives and they weren't familiar with linux.
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-USB-2.0-to-IDE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Converter/15819320
http://download.cnet.com/1770-2018_4-0.html?query=data+recovery&searchtype=downloads&rpp=10&filter=os=133 |platform=Windows&filterName=os=Windows%207|platform=Windows&tag=pe-searchFacetsTile;navForm
http://www.werecoverdata.com/landingpagegoogle.aspx?src=Google&gclid=CNuZlYOQ06oCFQvCKgod3nHu1g
Sorry to hear about your trouble. But, may I point out any and all surge
protectors are limited in the total lifetime power they will dissipate.
The total is cumulative over the life of the unit. Also, there is no
indication, other than smoke, as to how much more protection they are
giving you.
Best of luck.
Paul
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
associates.us> wrote:
does not mean all is lost; you won t be able to boot your hd but I
believe your data should still be intact; I've managed data recovery a
fewtimes over the years just trying this and that I found on hacker
forums and such. sorry I can t provide any links I am far from home
now and the last time was a few years back- just don t change anything
on your hd.
you might be able to replace the circuit board on the hd with an
identical working hd (unlike with seagate hds)
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
===============
Thanks for the encouraging words. AFAIK, beyond repeated
attempts to read the data, nothing has been done to the
drive.
After checking prices for the software and hardware [new
PCIe IDE card -- new computer has SATA only] needed to
attempt in house data recovery, I have decided to send drive
to a specialist data recovery firm. While not cheap, their
preliminary estimate is not that much more than the combined
price of the hard and software, and they have no learning
curve, and maximum likely hood of data recovery. This
company also specializes in WD drives and have any required
parts such as the circuit board on hand.
FWIW - lucky firm is Fields Data Recovery
http://www.fields-data-recovery.com /
Like "Dirty Harry" said "a man's gotta know his limits..."
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
So, please tell us what great truths you have learned.
(NOT rubbing it in)
I have done IT work for a number of small businesses for over 25 years
and I FINALLY have them trained to keep three generations of back-ups
current. It's not a matter of "IF" hardware will fail, it's a matter of
"WHEN"!
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
I've been off the Net a couple of days organizing backups. Why three
generations? Are these full or incremental?
How many parallel copies would you suggest? They cost time and money to
maintain, even at home. Mine have become too large for DVDs and Terabyte
drives have been receiving poor reviews for reliability.
jsw
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
There are only 3 types of computer users. Those who have lost data,
those who will, and those who will again.
Terrabyte drives for backup make a lot of sense if you are running a 5
drive rotation of full backups. Worst case you loose one day - because
the chance of more than one failing sequentially are so small as to be
insignificant. And they are cheaper, over-all, than a quality tape
backup ($2400 for the drive, and $40 each for tapes vs $300 each for
a 3 terrabyte NAS hard drive unit.
That said, I still use tape for file-by-file backup - VHD (VM Raw)
backups on hard drives
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
Being a retired home user I don't have recurring daily data, just downloads
of whatever interests me and recorded HDTV. I've been saving it on a D:
internal drive or partition, then copying it to an external USB drive, and
anything especially valuable to other external drives.
New files go into a D:\Inbox\ which I back up frequently. When it fills up I
sort the files into their main and external backup folders, a process that
can be done a little at a time like while watching the news or during
commercials. Dragging a file to the external drive copies it, then dragging
it to its proper folder in the D: drive clears it from the Inbox. The second
19" monitor helps keep the three folders visible at once. I consider the
main and backup folders synchronized when their Properties>Size and number
of files are identical, or very close for pix that may create thumbs.db.
Instead of \MyDocuments\ etc I make a \Wilkins\ folder accessible to all
user accounts (uncheck SimpleFileSharing, or chmod 777 for Unix) and store
everything that I create or edit in it, then back it up frequently as well.
It's portable between home, work and friends' computers on a flash drive.
On the theory (or SWAG) that 2.5" laptop drives in USB housings are more
rugged than >Terabyte 3.5" desktop drives I use the smaller one for primary
backup. Today in Staples the clerk showed me clear-cased Seagates, only the
2.5" having a parking cradle for the head. I'm checking reviews and prices
on a 1TB WD Passport for the HDTV computer.
jsw
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
"F. George McDuffee" wrote:
Get an external IDE HD case, or one of these for $4.99:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-IDE-SATA-2-5-3-5-Hard-Drive-Converter-Cable-/270792808083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0c825693
This version is the same, but comes with a power supply for $7.96:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-SATA-IDE-3-5-2-5-Hard-Drive-Converter-Cable-/330601588761?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf963e819
I use one to test loose hard drives, and for data recovery. It works
with 2.5", 3.5" IDE and SATA drives.
--
Subject: Spelling Lesson
The last four letters in American.........I Can
The last four letters in Republican.......I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
End of lesson. Test to follow in November, 2012
Remember, November is to be set aside as rodent extermination month.
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
=============
I got this version from Walmart.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-USB-2.0-to-IDE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Converter/15819320
Connects both IDE and SATA drives through USB, and has power
supply for drive. This is how I know that two of the three
hard drives are dead, and the one with the data shows that
it needs to be formatted, according to <computer> Win7.
One poster suggested Carbonite as a backup. My brother uses
this as does my accountant cousin, so I think I will give it
a try @ 60$ per year. FWIW -- http://www.carbonite.com/ Big
plus is that it is automatic.
In conversation with local computer techs, it appears there
has been a rash of computer "crashes," some with and some
without HD/data loss in the area, so I was not the only one
the power stutter or flicker got. I wish I had spent the
money for an UPS *BEFORE* the incident. Clearly surge
protection is no longer enough. I have had my UPS for about
2 weeks now and it seems to be doing the job. FWIW --
another Walmart buy --
http://www.walmart.com/ip/CyberPower-1500VA-900W-Intelligent-LCD-Battery-Backup-UPS/10250450
probably overkill for my home system, but better safe than
sorry.
I will let the group know how it goes with the data recovery
firm.
All this proves again that an ounce of prevention is worth a
ton of cure...
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
"F. George McDuffee" wrote:
><http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-IDE-SATA-2-5-3-5-Hard-Drive-Converter-Cable-/270792808083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0c825693
><http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-SATA-IDE-3-5-2-5-Hard-Drive-Converter-Cable-/330601588761?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf963e819
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sabrent-USB-2.0-to-IDE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Converter/15819320
That is similar to the $4.99 version, but cost $19 more. :)
I'm not sure that I'd want to put business data on it. I was just
talking yesterday to a local business about installing a NAS. If they
lose their T1 line they have no phones or internet to get to their
backup data, and the T1 has been out, up to three days at a time. I
have been trying to get them to switch to broadband instead of
fractional T1 for their internet use.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/CyberPower-1500VA-900W-Intelligent-LCD-Battery-Backup-UPS/10250450
That's not overkill. You don't want a UPS that is working close to
it's limit, if you want it to last.
I usually don't see the hard drives until a system dies or is being
trashed. Most of the time I use the external interface to clean up
virus and spyware before working on a screwed up computer.
--
Subject: Spelling Lesson
The last four letters in American.........I Can
The last four letters in Republican.......I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
End of lesson. Test to follow in November, 2012
Remember, November is to be set aside as rodent extermination month.
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
Obviously you have sent the drive off now. But maybe for future
reference my 2c might help.
Keep a thumdrive handy with a simple linux on it for the purpose of at
least booting a machine as often if the boot sector on the drive is
screwed you should be able to at least read data from an otherwise
working drive to place it elsewhere. Puppy linux is a fairly decent
ultra small linux that can read fat - nfs partitions ok.
Backups! I use a program called cobian backup, it's free and works well.
All my critical data gets backed up to 3 locations daily & scheduled
automatically with this. 1st backup goes to a separate drive in the
local machine, 2nd goes to a network attached 1tb drive via ftp, and the
3rd is also ftp transfered to a remote drive on one of my web servers.
The latter also gets backed up my server supplier.
Wayne..
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
<snip>
==========
Good advice, but basic problem is that the computer was 12
years old and the bios would let me boot from HD/CD/FD but
not thumb drive/usb.
You are correct that the data was still on the disk and I
could read the file structure and even open the files by
booting with an ubuntu live CD I had, but could not copy
anything to anything. Also had WD emergency recovery floppy
with FREEDOS that would boot the system, but not read the
HD.
Hope to hear back in the next few days from the data
recovery people.
With the recent upsurge in electrical power surges and
outages, it appears a HD UPS is vital.
Re: OT: computer data recovery help needed.
The father of our daughter-in-law had a failed drive & I suggested the
replace-board solution. He asked me to be on the look out at our dump's
swap-shop for a donor drive. The next day (!) someone dumped 42 hd's at
the "shop", not one of which matched his. So I checked eBay: out of the
39,000 hd's there, 3 matched his! Which suggested that I might have to
look at 13,000 hd's at the dump before I found one for him. That's not
gonna' happen.
Bob
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