Small Motor Seasonal Starting Saga Solved?

I have a lawnmower and a snowblower, both from Honda, and both are hard to start at the beginning of their season. The lawnmower is the worst offender, by far, so I'll focus on it.

I would always get the mower going, but it could take all day the first time. After that initial difficult start, starting was reasonably easy for the rest of the season.

I have heard various theories on why this is so:

  1. Gas varnished up over the winter. I took the carb apart - clean as a whistle. Nor did gas stabilizer make any difference.

  1. Water (from condensation) in the gas. Hmm, hard to do with the 10% alcohol in all gas available these days.

  2. Volatiles evaporating from the gas in the tank over the winter. Also, various stories saying that winter gas and summer gas are different, the difference being how volatile the gas is, with winter needing more volatile gas than summer. Hmm, this could be at least part of an answer.

So, this year, when I first tried to start the lawnmower for the summer, had the usual problems. Tried the usual dodges, like leaving the mower out in the sun to warm up, and putting fresh gas in the tank, but no go.

Volatiles? Ether! So, I gave it a squirt of starting fluid.

Started right up on the first try, and subsequent starts were of normal difficulty, probably because all the old gas was by then flushed out of the carb.

So, theory 3 seems to be correct.

And a dash of Naptha in the gas may do the same.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
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Stabil in all gas stocks, run dry at the end of the season, a hefty dose of B12 fuel system cleaner in the first fill of the season and as you noted, a shot of ether on the first start of the season.

Reply to
Pete C.

The redneck would ask "Where yew at?"

Have you tried using non-ethanol premium gas in those? I've heard that the ethanol attracts moisture and can cause problems.

And, reading the manual, you'd think that 3 pumps on the primer bulb would charge the carb. Think again. I crank that puppy 30 times (briggs mower) before attempting to start it and it goes on the first pull every time.

My Honda 190 pressure washer goes on the third pull after the winter layup, um, when I remember to turn the switch on.

I'm still using ethanol/gas and having no problems whatsoever with any of my beasties after 5 months of rain and cold in Oregon. I usually fill up at the local Fred Meyer grocery store's gas station. They run a tanker in there a couple/three times a week, so I know it's fresh gas. I lost a couple MPG when Oregon switched to ethanol blend, damnit. What a loser fuel _that_ is...

-- The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles. -- Ayn Rand

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Ran the gas out of mine completely last fall, got some fresh 91 octane last week, filled the tank, it fired off in three pulls, needed another pull to keep going. Has a gravity feed tank. I've found 91 octane is needed with the alcohol contaminated gas for it to chop through the heavier weeds, otherwise it stalls. Difference in performance is quite noticiable. Briggs engine, about 25 years old. In the past, if I left gas in it, even if the float bowl was left dry I'd have to disassemble and hit all the parts with carb cleaner, then it would run. I also think the alcohol is the reason they're sticking

6 hp engines on the same mowers they used to put 3.5 hp engines. That and CA smog specs. Either that or the horses have shrunk down.

Stan

Reply to
stans4

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FWIW, I also have a Honda mower, and it's as cold-blooded as you describe. I found that the choke adjustment doesn't always close the choke like it should. That's a linkage-geometry problem on my mower, and a little wear or stiffness in the cable is the culprit.

But rather than screw with it all the time, I just started pouring about a teaspoon of gas right down the carb throat. It starts on the first pull almost every time.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

What model? I have a HRC215SXA.

I have not had problems with the cable itself, but have had problems with adjustments and clamps creeping, probably from vibration. I first discovered this with the choke, where the cable had slipped in its clamp.

This mower seems to expect periodic cleaning and adjustment.

As for the speed/choke cable, there are two bracketing adjustments. First, when the control is in "choke" position, the choke plate should fully occlude the carb throat. This can be seen if the air filter assembly has been removed. Second, there should be a specified gap between two parts of the linkage at some other control position (don't recall the details). This is in the service manual.

As for cables, the classic solution is to run some heavy oil down them. Or, just replace them.

That should certainly work, but the squirt of ether from an aerosol can seems easier, and is needed once per season.

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn

Boston, MA area.

No non-ethanol gas available in local gas stations. I suppose I could go to a marina, but that's pretty far.

The problem is diurnal changes in temperature pulling moist air into the gas tank or can, where the moisture condenses into water. We used DryGas (100% methyl alcohol) to absorb the water and allow it to go through the engine without problems.

No bulb to pump on these engines.

Gasohol costs at least as much energy (and oil) to make as the gasoline it replaces, so the environmental benefit is unobvious. Making the alcohol uses about 1/4 to 1/3 of the corn crop, thus raising food prices worldwide. But someone is making money on this.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn

I've tried many of these things, but have discovered that what matters is the shot of ether.

I suppose that if one runs the engine dry, then fresh new gas (with all its volatile components still there) will get to the carb first, with no old stuff in the way.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn

(....trudging out to garage...putting on glasses...moving mower into the light...)

It's a HR215-KJ.

Yes it does. Great mower, though.

I had it right once, then it got out of adjustment again. Feeling lazy about it, I just went for the teaspoon of gas. I'll get around to adjusting it again one day.

It sounds like you have it licked. Whatever works, when it comes to small engines.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

(...)

I find that any 2 stroke motor (found in chainsaws and weed-wackers for example) start *much* more easily when I (very carefully!) warm it's cylinder casting with a small propane torch before pulling the starter cord.

Normally, I stop warming when the casting is detectably warm to the touch, probably ~ 100 - 150 F.

It makes the 'nearly impossible' easy.

--Winston

Reply to
Winston

Probably the same basic mower as I have. I'll have to download the service manual, for the comparison.

Yes. The mulching blade works very well, eliminating the time and trouble to bag and dispose of the clippings, and the grass seems to like the mulched clippings - keeps the organic material in the family I suppose.

I recall thinking that I could make a better and more secure clamping arrangement. Easy for a man with machine tools, enh?

My wife likes to mow the lawn, pushing this 95 pound machine around, all for the exercise. The attraction escapes me, but to maintain this charmed state, I need to ensure that she can *always* start the beast. So I do.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn

Al Gore, of course. But the recruits to the Church of Warmingism don't care about facts, just obeying The Faith.

Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn

Much safer. Thanks!

That is what I was thinking. I remembered the bad old days of carburated cars, when winter starts were difficult and summer starts were relatively easy. I envisioned raw gas puddling in the cylinder vs. gas vapor doing the 'ignition thing'.

--Winston

Reply to
Winston

Reply to
Ed Huntress

No mulching blade on mine. I like to bag all the weed seeds, anyway. My lawn is not a classy one. d8-)

Sure. I can make my own crankshafts and pistons, too, and I'll bet I could make a slick little push-button ether injector. Or, I can pour in a capful of gasoline...which sounds good to me in the short run.

That sounds like a plan. I keep my wife's cooking cutlery and food processor blades sharp for a similar reason.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Mostly it just condensed on the cylinder walls and stripped the oil off of them, and then ran down into the crankcase. It kept the lubricating oil companies in business.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Ouch!

A good friend of mine spent time helping to build the Trans Alaska Pipeline. He did oil changes on the heavy equipment.

While it was running. :)

--Winston

Reply to
Winston

Weird! Pure-Gas doesn't show it in the list, either.

Yeah, try the marina or the smaller airports. I doubt they contaminate avgas.

This didn't used to be a problem for my cars or mowers when we had sealed cans, at least in any state I've ever lived in (AR, CA, AZ, and OR.)

Are you running your carb dry at the end of the season? (I never have.) Is your choke working properly?

Go here and sign the petition:

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Farmers are getting a whole lot more for their corn, edible or not, because they get even more subsidies for corn as fuel. I recall some article saying that they're getting paid by the acre, not the bushel, so some of the corporate farms are phasing out other crops and planting some corn there, too.

Gas stations make more profits because it takes 12% more E-10 blend to go the same distance as pure gas due to the loss of BTU output. (Where's the supposed energy savings, folks?)

Liberal politicians get points and votes from the eco terrorists (who haven't yet figured out it's a net loss of energy) for "going green".

And on and on, ad nauseum.

And the Great Cull -still- hasn't started...

-- If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. -- misattributed to Thomas Jefferson

Reply to
Larry Jaques

That's tricky, I'll bet. I wonder how you'd know if the oil you were draining wasn't the same oil you were putting in.

-- Ed Huntress

Reply to
Ed Huntress

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