Survival Steam Engine <G> Question

Gunner, serious answer.

If the sh3t *really hits* the fan, the best use for "steam" will be boiling water. To drink, and to cook. Wood fire

Fun.recreation.survival dot com will not exist. Grow yer own BBQ beans and weenies.

half Sh4t hits the fan, my time would be best spent not stoking some gizmo steamer motor.

I hear the sun plants energy, free for the taking

just a rumor

~Dave

"Would it be possible to convert an internal combustion engine, for example a VW engine, to run on steam?"

That has been done according to a series in that ran "Live Steam Magazine" several years ago. I believe it was the Barrett VW. It operated on steam from a flash-type boiler.

Bob Swinney

A waste of time if you already have a gasoline engine. The engine could be adapted to run on all kinds of gaseous products such as coal gas or methane from sewage/manure. Better to make a gas producer than a boiler. Randy

A serious question to the group....in your individual opinions, does anyone have any suggestions for a simply made from common materials, with minimal machining, steam engine?

Boilers are another issue of course..and suggestions on that would be nice as well.

Would it be possible to convert an internal combustion engine, for example a VW engine, to run on steam?

Given the numbers of steamers here on RCM, and itinerant inventors, somebody should have some ideas. Think of it as Junk Yard Wars.....

The only criteria is that it be easy to assemble from common materials, capable of running an automotive generator (at the least) and can be done with minimal tools, or simple machine tools. If it can be scaled up for larger gennys/line shafts, that would be a plus.

Thanks in advance, let the fun begin.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Better to use a diesel and run it on vegetable oil. Relatively easy to come up with.

I think that in most remote locations the major factor would be lack of fuel. So it would have to take into account the local fuel supply if any. Most remote areas you find folks pumping or lifting water by hand or other human power.

That's probably the most important thing an engine can do.

For a non-remote area the most important thing would be sanitation, water supply (again) and garbage disposal. A good reason to be out of a populated area where one could have a) an outhouse, b) a hand-pump well.

If you really wanted to stay connected to civilization then one of those wind-up battery radios would be a nice touch. Honestly I don't think an engine would be of much use unless one were in a large agricultural setting and most of those tended to be large cast iron single-jug hit and miss types. Simple, reliable, belt drive for all the machines.

Jim

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After reading some of the other comments I still think it would be a fun project. All I want is one or two horsepower driving a car alternator. I would prefer a boiler that could take wood as the fuel but any fuel would be OK.

Probably won't ever build such a device but I would like to.

Bill K7NOM

Alternator or generator? If you use an altenator, you'll need a battery for it to start charging. A generator doesn't require one. If you'll include a battery, the altenator would be better.

Les

A couple thoughts:

Best simple design I've seen was right at the beginning of "The Boy Mechanic" Vol. 1 of 19 aught something... Can't locate that particular pile of books at the moment... It consists of a twin cylinder affair that looks a lot like a two stroke gas engine and would - I think - later come to be known as a "uniflow" set up. No crossheads here, just connecting rods and wrist pins in long pistons turned to fit bored out pipes. No eccentrics either, just a couple of cams with spring loaded followers. Real easy to make. The followers lift the conical valves in the steam chest to admit steam. The cylinders have large ports in their sides to let the steam out at the bottom of their travel, just like a two-stroke gas engine. Think flathead two stroke and you'll have the flavor of it. I think Lindsay has reprinted the Boy Mechanic if I'm not mistaken. The real trick would be getting some kind of decent boiler. I'd opt for a dry back scotch marine sort of thing because maybe you wouldn't need a whole lot of staybolts and I'm betting that in the post nuke world tubes might still be relatively easy to find. I suppose it really does depend on what you'd find...Maybe if you scored a bunch of wire and lots of small tubes you would find yourself constructing a simple verticle fire tube affair wound about with wire like the Stanley steamer boilers. You might get yourself quite a few pounds of pressure that way. I'd make boiler feed pumps and check valves using the steel balls from larger trashed ball bearings. Ever read John Goffe's Mill (sp?) or "The Story of a Stanley Steamer" by George Woodberry? Probably in the event of a real mess, I'd attempt to get back to my friends in Northern New Hampshire who have a lot of steam stuff hanging around. There are still a number of reciprocating steam plants hanging around up that way. No, that's unrealistic, last thing you could do would be to travel... I strongly suspect that those on the edges of the once industrial areas of the country would fare better. It's surprising what doesn't exist here in Virginia and what remains in northern New Hampshire and Maine. Another book/ pamphlet around here that might come in handy was written by the father of a blacksmith friend. He was an engineer who worked for the U.N. and taught folks in Africa how to make simple tools and such from the materials you might find in a railroad scrapyard. It's interesting that you ask this question as I've often thought about it...My mom grew up in Hartford Connecticut and had friends burned in the great circus fire there. "Always, always, always, look for the exits," she still says.

Most of the folks I run with, in the Survival community, have long term food/shelter/lighting etc etc already, and many are nearly self sufficient.

A growing season is only so long, and the ability to pump water, run a belt driven saw, drill press, lathe etc would be mighty handy to have. Saving gasoline for vehicles, when one has wood, or solar (flash boiler) and operating a steam engine makes a lot of sense.

The question was posed, so a guy could make up an engine before hand, and have it ready, or to use it as a fun "thing" at other times.

Solar is nice, but the cost of the infrastructure to utilize it is very cost prohibitive, when one considers the numbers of solar banks, batteries, inverters etc etc one needs to get enough power to do Work.

Some of the folks already have water power, windmills etc but steam would be a nice addition to those whom do not, for a long period of time. Lumber or wood would be fairly easy to come by, as scrap for fuel. A wood gas engine is another option, but they are also a maintainence hog as well.

Gunner

Gunner

Most "What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Thats interesting! I thought Id heard of something along those lines so brougth it up.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

How hard would it be to make a solar flash boiler, for those of us in the Southwest/South?

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Some places water wells are far too deep to be able to operate a hand pump, while modifying an generator or mechanical pump to run from a belt drive would not be that hard.

Its not a matter of staying connected, but the ability to run tools by either electrical generation or belt drive thats important.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

It would be a fun project, hence the in the title.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

batteries will be around a very long time, even after the sources of gasoline go away. Every motor vehicle has one, so collecting them would be easy, charging them is the problem.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Not necessarily, if your location becomes unsafe, or the resources are limited. The idea of course is to be able to run "stuff" after a disaster occurs, weeks or months after, if the utilities are not going to come back on anytime soon, or for those whom live off the grid.

Thats all real survivalists do..is have an exit or the proper tool handy. Like seatbelts, no one hopes they every get used. On the other hand, there are an increasing number of people whom have bugged out of the rat race and are now living in remote locations as self sufficently as possible. Living off the grid presents some problems, largely the lack of electical or mechanical power to do work.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Actually, the first problem would be collecting and salvaging them before they all became sulfated and unchangeable.

The second problem would be the knowledge of how to manufacture new ones.

Prior to Y2K, "misc.survivialism" dealt with such issues.

People like you don't seem to consider this important these days.

Some of us wonder why you hate other humans so much that you are willing to lie about them.

"_Magna est veritas et praevalebit"_ (Truth is mighty and will prevail).

erniegalts [Australia] [misc.survivalism]

Depends on what sort of pump you envision. A traditional "pitcher pump" operates on the principle of creating a vacuum in a chamber controlled by valves.

The water is forced up by atmospheric pressure at STP.

So, roughly, you are talking about a limit on a hand pump at surface level of perhaps 32 feet or so.

If you want, you can "mechanize" such a hand pump to provide 100, or

1000, or even a million strokes per minute...but you cannot suspend the laws of physics.

Nor can you expect to be believed if you tell lies about others on usenet.

IMHO, what is even more important is that other people with other skills trust you enough to form a survival group with you.

Roughly [and theoretically] speaking, prior to Y2K might have wanted you in my group, or even been willing to follow some group where you were a leader.

However, given your recent lie about me, am searching for some cross-cultural term of absolute rejection at any possible level of co-operation.

I could, of course, say that I "wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire", or that "if you were washed up on the beach half drowned I might drag you out into deeper water or throw a bucket of water on you."

All considered, for the moment will stick with the hope of testifying against you at the Judgement and helping to condemn you to eternal Hell, Gunner.

Perhaps you think you can freely lie about others. Perhaps people in California think that such behaviour is somehow "acceptable".

However, I think it very interesting that many if not most of those on misc.survivalism who are trying to defend your lie are from California.

Perhaps you think that once you can try to get away with lying about others anywhere in the world you can then lie about others in other states of the USA?

Don't know. Don't even understand why you should want to tell lies about me.

Can you show where have ever accused any American of "self confessed criminal activity"?

Challenge you to do so.

However, both of these actually seem rather mild.

"_Magna est veritas et praevalebit"_ (Truth is mighty and will prevail).

erniegalts [Australia] [misc.survivalism]

Gunner, wouldn't it be easier to convert a gas engine to alcohol and then just distill your own hooch for it. A reflux distiller can get

195 proof in one run. You can ferment all sorts of trash and boiling can be done with almost any heat source although heat control is important for a reflux column.

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get. So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

Been following this thread, and thinking ...

Wouldn't it be cool if you could (electric solenoid) inject steam into the sparkplug hole of a 5hp small engine? Maybe trigger solenoid from mag coil or points. Block off the intake valve and change the cam timing so the output valve opened around bottom of stroke.

Even if such a motor produced fractional hp, it could be useful.

zero