The Silver Bull Market

On 2014-07-04 it closed at $21.15 USD.

It's $21.45 USD at the close of today, Friday.

Just 1.4% movement in a week in a traditionally volatile market is hardly a skyrocket. All of today's movement happened in a few minutes as the Hong Kong market was closing for the day. As you say, manipulation or some big trader making a move. I'll bet it corrects Monday.

The trouble is, people have been making this argument for a decade or more. The 15:1 ratio IS "historical" and came from a time when gold and silver were money as in the currency used for daily life commerce. Today they are both just markets and the markets seem to have made their own rules a few decades back.

That's an old argument too. Both gold and silver have been produced as a multiple metals yield process for almost a century and both have been produced at only a small markup over cost for years now. At times producers had to sell it at a loss because they were locked into honoring futures contracts that matured. Many if not most, have closed those bookings. Many mines have shut down with enormous known deposits in the earth simply because there was no cost-to-market profit.

Talking about industrial uses for a product after the apocalypse is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it.

What, there won't be any need for circuits or radios?

Sod off Winnie, you poof.

On 11 Jul 2014; I imposed a declaration in opposition to Winston_Smith's motion to modify THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION in support of the CROSS MOTION TO VACATE THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. So noted by the Federal Court of Usenet Justice proceeding preliminary declaration, news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

In a single month, silver is up 10.76% in Canadian dolars - the currency I value my purchases at. A nice ROI in my book.

That is completely true, much of the market still sees silver as an industrial metal - which it is. Though even so, it is still the most undervalued asset in an economy filled with overly photocopied monopoly money and credit. When those paper IOUs and derivatives gets devalued, investors will make up the difference. There WILL be a major divergence in the spot price of silver and physical price.

It takes years and millions of dollars to re-open up those mines, that will only happen after a clear long-term re-evaluation of silver's worth. Even without going into the current "fractional reserve" precious metals smoke and mirrors - silver is currently selling at just over the cost to mine DIRT. Considering some mining companies *claim* they can profitably mine gold even at $800/oz fixed - silver is a deal. Get physical, buy low.

Not an apocalypse, simply a mis-trust of debt based - paper financial instruments. As I said silver follows gold, not to mention the fact while gold is hoarded by governments and banks (and Indian brides to be)... silver is used.

On 11 Jul 2014; I imposed a declaration in opposition to Big Muddy's motion to modify THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION in support of the CROSS MOTION TO VACATE THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. So noted by the Federal Court of Usenet Justice proceeding preliminary declaration, news:lpq1a4$5dl$19@dont- email.me:

Two words - "solar panels".

They require large ammounts of silver compaired to say cell phones, computers and the like. Plus solar energy is the only really effective way to produce renewable energy. When peak oil hits your wallet, silver to the rescue!

BTW, silver traditionally followed in oil's price, not gold.

Robert, I see you have met our beloved group troll.

My point is that after an economic collapse, there is very little industrial activity of any sort. Witness the First Great Depression of the 1930s.

Solar panels are great. When people are wondering how to buy supper, they are not high on the list.

Silver went in the dumper like every other commodity during the First Great Depression. Gold was price fixed or it almost certainly would have done the same.

After I posted, I heard the reason for today's jump. Once again a Portuguese bank is reported to be on the verge of collapse which has major consequences to Europe and by trade the entire world. Owners say no problem, don't worry. The DOW took a dive, precious metal is up. Standard reaction, pretty much always corrects in a couple trading days. Rerun of the festivities a couple years ago when PIGS countries hit the dumper.

"Recent disclosures of financial irregularities at a web of family-held holding companies behind Portugal's largest listed bank, Banco Espirito Santo, have raised questions about potentially destabilizing losses at the bank and other companies ...."

I expect the percent movement would be the same in any currency. It is the same in USD. As to ROI, it depends on which month you bought in and sold in. Especially in a volatile market like silver.

I'm glad to hear you made a profit and hope you don't lose it again next month. It's a sort of saw tooth.

Yes, you can buy at the bottom and sell at the top and hope it's repetitive. But the trend has been down since it was $32 USD in 2013. I suspect investors have been selling off precious metals to put the money in equities. Do I expect it to get back to that level any time soon? No. That argues against buy and hold.

You also have to put it relative to what equities did in that time frame. They are up too, by significant percentages. Both are just a reflection of inflation of the money supply from quantitative easing by many countries.

You might be right. I'm not certain. As you pointed out in your previous post, silver is a by-product of the production of other metals. As long as they are in demand, the mines will operate. If they operate, they have the choice of ignoring the silver or recovering it and taking what they can get as a marginal increase in profit.

I agree with your attitude. I hold precious metal, but as insurance, not as an investment. Overall, I hope I lose may ass. That would mean the economy is healthy. But I don't think enough other people - big guns in the financial world - agree.

Hold up there. Back up a notch. I replied to your comment (now snipped) |-- >When dollars, stocks and bonds becomes toilet paper... bitcoin |-- >will not be riding on a white horse to save the day. Heck, you can not |-- >even use digital bitcoins as firewood! When equity and currency is all toilet paper or firewood, you are certainly talking about a global financial apocalypse. Europe in the late 20s leading into the world Great Depression of the 30s. Industry stopped. Dead stopped. No consumption of anything.

Moreover, such events are almost always coupled with things like world war. In terms of today's technology that might be Armageddon.

On 11 Jul 2014; I imposed a declaration in opposition to Winston_Smith's motion to modify THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION in support of the CROSS MOTION TO VACATE THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. So noted by the Federal Court of Usenet Justice proceeding preliminary declaration, news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

The Great Depression was deflationary. Though the Fed, BOC and the ECB makes that argument this is happening today, there actions with quantitative easing, re-bubbling the credit market and turning the purpose of government bonds on it's head says otherwise.

Deflations are a reduction in monetary supply. We simply have an issue of decreased liquidity of debt today, since most people are unable or unwilling to sign loans since the collapse of mortgage-backed securities.

That being said coins were 90% silver dueing the depression. There was no need to barter in silver during the depression. The price of silver was FIXED by the United States Constitution since a dollar is 420 grains of 900 fine silver as per the founding fathers.

During the depression when stocks and other markets fell 90%, silver was money - and those that used it to acquire stocks when they were hopelessly undervalued got rich.

During that time back runs to convert silver certificates, United States notes and Federal Reserve bank note into real Morgan dollar was huge. People back then knew paper currency was just an IOU for silver!

On 11 Jul 2014; I imposed a declaration in opposition to Winston_Smith's motion to modify THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION in support of the CROSS MOTION TO VACATE THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. So noted by the Federal Court of Usenet Justice proceeding preliminary declaration, news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Sorry if cutting so much, and for falling back on a comment you made before.

First, yes gold was set during the Great Depression by the government, at a clearly low price. It was illegal to own real gold, though during the Great Depression, when all other stocks crashed by 90% - mining companies went up

4 times their pre-depression price. Due to the government control over physical, mining stocks were the next best derivative to value what the free market value of gold should be.

Second, maybe skyrock was not the best term to use about PM moves this month, you are using a qutoe before I xposted to quickly explain an idea to another person.

Also in Canada, owning firearms is all but illegal. The few licenced owners of shotguns could - and have had their arms seized by the RCMP for ANY reason what-so-ever.

When currency is no longer used to value goods, I would be happy to trade some silver for firearms and ammo. That has been precious metal's purpose for over 6,000 years. If international markets and paper values stop having meaning, true money will shine.

After all in barter, if I am a fisherman maybe you don't want or can't store fish in trade for a Colt Double Eagle. Then again, who would trade a sidearm and ammo for fish??? You'd want something of real value!

Good words.

Word.

Bwak!

Chicken Little is back....

It was in monetary terms but the name reflects that all commerce activity was depressed. In simple terms, nobody had a job, thus no body bought anything. The only way you could sell anything was to take less for it.

Irrelevant. The Great Depression was a deflation that followed a period of inflation. We are inflating the money supply now. We will stay where we are or deflate.

If we stay where we are, silver is only a sensible investment IF you see continued monetary inflation AND if you think silve will out inflate other investments.

If we deflate, commerce stops, or at least slows drastically, and commodity prices, including silver, go in the toilet.

Yes, but we are talking about Depression. See above. Do you understand the difference?

Because of a record of not being able to pay them back when they lose their income as commerce becomes depressed.

But it's much more than that. There was no less money in the Great Depression than there was in the Roaring Twenties. It's just that those that had it sat on it. There was near zero velocity. Those that live hand to mouth, most people, spent their "stash" on groceries and found there was no work next week. They bought nothing because they were broke and commerce stopped.

There was no need because paper dollars and silver dollars were interchangeable at any bank any time. Where did you drag up bartering?

Nope.

WRONG

BULLSHIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Silver has not been price fixed since 1893.

"With the Coinage Act of 1873, bimetallism was disestablished by congress and gold was established as the standard." "The collapse of the Silver market beginning in 1893 dropped the price of silver from 83 cents to 62 cents an ounce. ... Then, as the silver mines began to close due to the continued drop in silver prices, "

Nope. The price has been all over the place including the dumper during the Depression. It was $.69 in 1925, $.28 in 1932. By sometime between 1945 and 1946 it had struggled back up to it's 1925 value. TWENTY years later.

has a table giving the annual average price of silver from 1900 through 1998.

The postwar decline in the price of silver, 1920-1933

NOT price fixed. Gold was price fixed by the government during the Depression. Silver was not. The price of silver went in the dumper with all commodities and recovered in parallel with them as we came out of the Depression.

Silver was money and so was the paper dollar as they were interchangeable at any bank at any time. The problem was not using your wealth, the problem was having any wealth. When industry collapsed, the vast majority of people had no job and thus no income. Just like today.

Bull shit. With capital B and capital S. Where do you get this crap ? The run on banks was to get your savings out before the bank collapsed. There was no FDIC. When the bank failed the savings accounts were worthless. The bank had no money to pay them back but solvent banks would exchange paper and metal at your request.

The customers would have been glad to get their savings out in either form. People considered paper and silver dollars as equal. They were equal. You could get paid in your choice and the store took either equally.

If you are as ignorant of history as you appear, I urge you to study before you invest a lot in any form. You think have an inside track on a sure thing to get rich that everyone else is too dumb to see. Prepare to get taken to the cleaners.

If you are just another usenet bullshit artist, stop making things up as I can call you on every little fantasy you pump out.

On 12 Jul 2014; I imposed a declaration in opposition to Winston_Smith's motion to modify THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION in support of the CROSS MOTION TO VACATE THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. So noted by the Federal Court of Usenet Justice proceeding preliminary declaration, news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

What the f*ck are you on about? There was no inflation in actual product values pre-depression. There was a massavive increase in stocks price due to speculation. Stocks were the new tulip buds in a world where the industrial revolution changed the nature of wealth and supply.

BULLSHIT! As currency deflates, inflates or there is a credit crisis PM demand spreads as investors get freaked out.

Naturally you don't dipshit. During the Great Depression, silver made huge gains even as the price of everything else fell down a hole. The cost-of-living adjusted performance of silver made over 80% gains in

1934 alone.

Silver coinage was accepted for purchases at a fraction of an items value, true. In other words silver INCRESSED in value, as I stated above. What you FAILED to notice is that in the Great Depression banks WOULD NOT convert paper currency to silver coinage, only silver certificates. And most stores WOULD NOT take Fed or Treasury bills. Learn history, before making up your own.

Um Hello... Hello MCFLY????

The United States did not elimanite silver in coins until 1964.

Think Mcfly, THINK!

I suggest you look at the coins prior to '64. They were silver. You fail to understand the KEY words *cost-of-living*. Think "Big Mac Index".

BTW, thanks for including a report that does not cover anything about silver during the depression, to make your point about... silver during the depression.

No, the original problem was caused by commissioned based salespeople selling loans to people just out of jail, no money down, bad credit, no credit, and making $9/hour... or even unempolyed. Currency is debt, if interest can not be paid when others take out new loans the pyramid collapses!

Dip shit. If you are going to spell it with a capital S... use a God damned capital S! People knew that other banks ran in the same manner. When the dominos start to fall you worry about the dominos you have your wealth stacked in... that includes paper curreny, which is issued BY OTHER FREAKING BANKS!

You have not called me on anything, you are just making up your own theories about the depression, while IGNORING completely that it was caused in full by paper backed assists collapsing, and ingoring the actual purchasing power of silver.

On 12 Jul 2014; I imposed a declaration in opposition to Big Muddy's motion to modify THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION in support of the CROSS MOTION TO VACATE THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. So noted by the Federal Court of Usenet Justice proceeding preliminary declaration, news:lpqc9e$1vk$14@dont- email.me:

Guess Winnie never heard of the Hoover Dam. Whole modern metropolitan areas, hell the entire states of California, Nevada and Arizona would not exist as we know them if not for such depression era industrial activity. Looks like Winnie is a little forgetful when he makes stuff up.

My mother told me that if you did have a job, the Depression was just something you read about in the papers.

-jsw

NO.

Those are NOT the only two choices, you infantile shill.

On 12 Jul 2014; I imposed a declaration in opposition to Big Muddy's motion to modify THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION in support of the CROSS MOTION TO VACATE THE PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION. So noted by the Federal Court of Usenet Justice proceeding preliminary declaration, news:lprqi3$akq$20@dont- email.me:

Again, it seems Winnie does not understand the basic concepts of supply. When a market has more of something like currency, it loses value.

Via manipulation you can temporary "stay where" you are, but that never lasts. When it stops people will see the exact opposite of deflation, when all that photocopied monopoly money floods out of the stock market, looking for PHYSICAL assets after a major speculative crash.

Even if that does not happen, Winnie still does not understand the concept of supply when it comes to silver. When you have less of something, like lets say an extremely important substance... it goes up in value over time.

For example if you had a silver dime in 1962, which would buy you just over a liter of gas and saved it... you could still buy just over a liter of gas today. Though if you had a fiat dime from 1965 and saved it... you would have ten worthless cents.

If Winnie understood silver manipulation making silver "stay where" it was in the cost-of-living index, then when the manipulation ends the owners of silver should see a vast re-evaluation of their holdings.

Just look at the paper PM sell-off in Mid 2013. Physical buyers quickly shot-up afterwords including the very same banks that issued paper PM derivatives, knowing that they were getting physical metals at a predetermined & heavy discount.

Even if silver manipulation continues, the point I have been making in this whole thread is that PMs will keep their value far better then paper currency or the ones and zeros in a computer.

Ah, cost of living adjusted. That is not the price realized by actual buying or selling on the market. You said it was price FIXED, not remained constant in some fudged index. Try selling your silver at the $369 value you suggested.

I gave you the facts and you don't seem to want to recognize them. |-- The price has been all over the place including the dumper |-- during the Depression. It was $.69 in 1925, $.28 in 1932. By sometime |-- between 1945 and 1946 it had struggled back up to it's 1925 value. |-- TWENTY years later. |--

|-- has a table giving the annual average price of silver from 1900 |-- through 1998. The value of silver dropped 250% in 7 years and took 20 years to recover. You said it was price fixed.

Give us cites, not your statements, if you want to disprove that.

You have stated a lot of things. None with cites. You appear to be at variance with any number of respected sources.

Ah yes, abuse. A clear sign you are on the ropes and know it. More than that, you are snipping what you wrote and changing what it was I replied to.

You wrote: |-- >The price of silver |-- >was FIXED by the United States Constitution since a dollar is 420 grains |-- >of 900 fine silver as per the founding fathers.

That is WRONG. I replied (with a cite) that the law changed in 1873.: |--

|-- "With the Coinage Act of 1873, bimetallism was disestablished by |-- congress and gold was established as the standard."

You just morphed from "silver was price fixed by the Constitution" to when silver was removed from coins a hundred years later. A total change of subject.

Same morph. I replied to your claim it was price fixed during the Depression (with a cite) and you respond with a bunch of irrelevant "indexes". Whatever the value was, real or adjusted, it was not FIXED by law. You statement is incorrect.

It has a table of the market price of silver for every year from 1900 to 1989. Was not the Depression in that time span? What about that does not tell you "anything about silver during the depression".

It tells you the price. It tells you that you were wrong when you said it was price FIXED.

Digression into more lies, misunderstandings, morphing, and general BS snipped. You appear to want to argue about things you make up instead of talk about true history.

Goodbye.

Oh, look! The two trolls are talking. Isn't that cute?

Another total morph. You said the price of silver was FIXED by the Constitution during the Depression.

You are wrong in that.

Now you morph to supply and demand. Totally unrelated statements.