What is it? LXXII

On Straight-six engines, where access is through a removable plate, it's the easiest tool to use which will not bend things out of whack. Sorry if I haven't explained it so you can visualize what I mean!!

I've been looking at old plans of automobile engines of that time, with flat head (hanging valves; if you also use this expression). I think we are talking about the same type of construction.

And here comes the point where things get at least strange:

- Hold the tool so, that the lower fork touches the spring retainer from the underside. That's OK. Now (practically, the other way round is/was better) you have to force and wag the upper fork between spring (under tension!) and valve head.

- Do you think that this is an intelligent way if you consider what for the spring is compressed. Yes, to remove the valve. Now we do have to look way back to the early days of 4 strokes and see how valves were inserted. In T-heads (a sub kind of flat heads) there was a big plug opposide of the valve throug what the valve could be pulled out without removing the head. Now wouldn't it be much cleverer to open that plug and use a C-clamp spring compressor? If you talk about flatheads without that plug, things don't change, because the head is removed and you can easily use the C-clamp compressor.

Hope you could visualize what I meant. :-)

I'd also like to know where your knowledge is from that this tools is for compressing automobile valve springs.

Nick

Not all valve jobs are done with the head off of the engine. So the "C" clamp type won't work in all situations.

?tool=all&Group_ID=1576&store=snapon-store

That's right and thank you for the link. But I'm still not giving up. :-) In modern cars, this tool is helpfull, if you want to replace the packing of the valve guide. But when the "doubted" tool was built, there were no packings. There was no reason to just remove the spring. Well, if it was broken. But then the valve was bent and burned and had to be replaced.

Nick

Well you better believe it because he is right. Strictly speaking though, last century, such devices were called valve lifters, the term valve spring compressor, is a relatively modern term.

I've posted a pic to the dropbox:

Tom

No. The tool is not intended to compress the valve spring, but merely HOLD it in the compressed position. The valve cover on the side of the block is removed. A valve is selected that is already open, with the spring compressed. The tool is adjusted to slide around the lifter, between the spring retainer and the block, below the valve. Then the camshaft is rotated to lower the lifter. The keepers are removed from the valve stem, and the valve removed from the block. Then on to the next valve.

It is much easier to use the camshaft lobe to compress the spring. The tool merely keeps the spring compressed as the camshaft is rotated further to allow valve keeper removal.

Valve servicing was often done with the engine in place, with manifolds and other equipment still installed. The smaller tool was much less clumsy.

Many small gasoline engines still used the side-valve design here in the US.

Dale Scroggins

Slight flaw in your reasoning, Dale, if it isn't used for compressing the spring, how does one replace the valve & keepers? All the ones I use are fully capable of compressing the springs.

Tom

While this tool would be capable of compressing the springs for valve installation, I seldom used one on installation. It's easier for me to compress the spring in a small vise, "mouse" the spring with a couple of pieces of safety wire, install the spring, valves, and keepers, then cut and remove the safety wire. The keepers are much easier to install with no tool in the way, and everything is much easier to align.

My comments weren't based on reasoning or theory, but experience. The technique I described isn't the only way to remove the valves using the tool. It is, in my experience, the fastest way to remove side valves. When customers were paying by the hour, fast was good.

Dale Scroggins

Why would you wish to remove the springs if you are only grinding the valves?

Tom

Who said I was only grinding valves? It isn't worth opening the engine in most cases just to grind valves. Might as well do it all.

Dale Scroggins

Really? LOL. I'm sure someone with a burnt valve in a straight eight would be impressed with your philosophy. Still, someone who wires springs prior to installing has to be an expert...

Tom

Tom,

I have a distinct impression you are suspicious of my knowledge and skills as to engine repairs. I'm always open to learning from someone with more knowledge and experience than I have. If you could give me some idea of your background in this, I'd appreciate it. If your experience exceeds my forty+ years, my level of education, or my native intelligence, then I will welcome your comments. So far, I haven't been impressed.

Dale Scroggins

As a repairer by replacement I'm sure you have no peers. As for your level of education in these matters, I'd be impressed with any text that you can quote stating wiring springs for installation as acceptable & economic practice. As for you native intelligence, not sure what your ethnic origins has to do with the subject at hand.

As for myself, I couldn't care one way or other what impresses you.

Tom

Ah!! From the other side! It doesn't compress the spring by gripping the spring on it's both ends, but going between valve retainer and somwhere in direction to the cam. It doens't compress, but support the spring retainer. In the way a car jack would.

Thank you very much for your explanation, I got it now. The tool does what it is supposed to do. My fault that I thought it grips the spring. I was on the way to scan sectional drawings to prove that you can't reach both ends of the spring in most cases. But the cam side end is enough. All that, only if you have side valves.

Thanks again, Nick

I worked as a mechanic from 1962 -1980, in various dealerships (mostly GM) and in my own Gas Station - was one of the first in NH to pass the SASE Certification tests as a Master Mechanic (don't think we called it that at the time - just had a shirtsleeve full of patches by the time it was all over). I was a drag racer (AA Fuel), a hot rodder (41 Ford Pickup with a Buick engine was my favorite), an antique car enthusiast (37 Buicks were a particular passion), A collector of hand tools (they just seemed to multiply), and spent most of my waking hours doing something to cars and boats. Having said all that, I was introduced to this particular tool by a fellow mechanic who explained its' use to me. I have never personally used one or owned one. With the head still in place, however, you could replace either a broken spring or a leaky valve guide seal, usually after applying air to the cylinder through the spark plug hole with an adapter to keep the valve seated. On overhead engines , of course, there are simple lever type tools to do that. Hope this helps!

Now gentlemen, let's play nicely. Here's one that specifies "for small engines"

I don't doubt the knowledge or experience of any of the posters. Have some knowledge and experience myself. There were a LOT of different designs tried for valve spring compressors before the "C-clamp" type were developed, and the c-clamp type only work with the head removed. I've used one similar to the on posted by RH and similar to the one in the URL above for replacing valve seals on overhead engines, holding the valve closed with an "air hold" or another trick, stuffing some clothesline rope into the sparkplug hole, then manually turn the engine until the piston squeezes the rope into the top of the cylinder & holds the valve shut. Let's face it, there are lots of different ways to accomplish things, and ingenuity was the order of the day long before the tool manufacturers became so prolific with different designs.

I think most of us are agreed that the pictured item has something to do with valve springs, whether compressing or merely "holding" as Mr. Scroggins says. Beyond that, it's all rhetoric.

My $.25