Voltage loss question

It's worth noting that the inside of a detached garage or shed isn't considered a special location. so.... as long as there's no "new" circuits then feel free to disconnect move / add your lights and sockets as you see fit. Just leave the fuse board intact as it's just that and the cable across the garden subject to building regs.

Unfortunately not a choice for me.... I'm not keen on changing my name to "Fred down the road"!

See here for the full story regarding the MP's daughter.

formatting link
Graham

Reply to
Graham
Loading thread data ...

formatting link
Ah. That's not the story I heard, which was that the dishwasher was faulty. The Telegraph's version is probably more likely to be right though, so Part P might have saved her.

-- Peter Fairbrother

Reply to
Peter Fairbrother

formatting link

If this report is to be believed it wasn't the work of the cowboy electricians which killed her, it was the work of the cowboy husband in putting a screw through the cable without checking for its location first. No amount of legislation will protect against such idiocy.

Cliff Coggin.

Reply to
Cliff Coggin

formatting link
>

I believe that the 15th edition of the Regs would have been in force when that work was done. AFAICT It does not contain any requirement that cable embedded in plaster needs to be 50mm (or any distance) deep. I am willing to be proved wrong, but when I rewired my house in 1986 to those same Regs, I tried to meet or exceed their requirements for every aspect of the job.

Hubby should certainly have checked before sticking a screw into the wall.

Of course, the _current_ Regs would have protected her because they require circuits with mechanically un-protected cables (such as those embedded direct in plaster) to have an RCD on them. But they wouldn't have applied to that job.

Mark Rand RTFM

Reply to
Mark Rand

formatting link

At risk of drifting a bit off topic here,appliances played an important role when Part P was put through parliament. The stats were fudged so that all deaths as a result of faulty electrics, unexplained fires and appliances were included to give a much stronger case.

This is the regulatory impact assessment ie: what will it cost and what savings will it make. pay particular attention to table 1a and 1b on page 13.

formatting link
Unfortunately I could rant on about the short comings of Part P all day, and how it's gone far enough to make life awkward for those of us that do a proper job, but not far enough to prevent rogues. So I'm going to stop now and calculate the max loading for a 30m run of various sizes of cables...

Graham

Reply to
Graham

formatting link
>

Cables should run vertically or horizontally from a point (socket, switch etc) in what are described in the regs as "safe zones". The offending cable went diagonally up the wall from a spur to the cooker hood contravening that reg. Therefore placing blame on the sparky. But yes hubby should have checked. It's quite common I come across 1 or 2 cables a year with a wall plug though the middle, still in service and showing no fault on any tests!

Graham

Reply to
Graham

And what happened if you switched on all the machinery? ;-)

Regards, Tony

Reply to
Tony Jeffree

Here is a list of various cable sizes and the maximum load each can take based on a 35 meter run and a 3% max volt drop as it will supply lights:

cablesize max load KW max head MCB

2.5mm 10.9A 2.6 20A 4mm 17A 4 32A 6mm 27A 6.5 40A 10mm 44A 10.5 50A 16mm 70A 15 63A

1 HP = 0.75KW (ish)

Max head MCB based on PVC cable at 70 degrees, Ratings for XLPE are higher as a result of increased conductor temperature, and therefore shouldn't be used since mcb's are not designed to run above 70 degrees conductor temp. No derating needs to be applied if it's in a duct, and in fact Prysmian cables seems to suggest that less derating is needed over buried direct.

As a rule of thumb the head MCB should be twice that of the maximum outgoing MCB(in shed / workshop) in order that only the outgoing MCB will trip.

I would install at least a 10mm 2 core cable, going to 16mm if you plan to run that 3 phase stuff off an inverter or a 10mm 4 core to allow for proper 3 phase.

Current recommendation for earthing says that if there is something that needs main bonding eg: water supply, structural steelwork or gas supply etc, then rod it. If not then just connect to the house earth. This advice seems to change in every other issue of the NICEIC mag though. Personally I like to see a rod as per Dave H's reply but if you go 3 phase it will be a nightmare. If you do decide to export the earth give me an email as you may need use an extra core depending on the size and earthing requirements.

Buy the cable through someone who has a trade account at a wholesalers, there is LARGE markup in price to non account customers.

Graham

Reply to
Graham

I blew the company fuse but EDF were very quick to come and replace it on a Sunday !!!!! Mind you that was only the starting surge - running load was well below that sort of level.

AWEM

Reply to
Andrew Mawson

You mention water supply and structural steelwork, but should the machines themselves be bonded? (single phase install)

Steve

Reply to
Steve

Possibly, but in practice I've never seen it. It's meant to apply to steelwork (i.e pile driven or in a big hole filled with concrete) and metal water pipes that are in contact with soil (ground).

Machines even if bolted down to a concrete slab with a bolt hitting some rebar will still have a high enough resistance to earth not to need bonding due to the concrete, damp proof and hardcore base etc. You also don't need to bond the water if it's all in plastic.

Graham

Reply to
Graham

Belated thanks for everyone's input to my question, apologies for the delay in replying. Lots of useful info and guidance. I will take note and plan accordingly. Prefer the route of "it was already there" rather than complicate issues with Part P and other tiresome visitors in the guise of inspectors and planners. Bob

Reply to
Emimec

formatting link
>>

It doesn't matter a damn what edition was in force, or even whether any such regulations existed, or how the house was wired, her husband was the one who allegedly created the electrical fault that led to her death. If true, he is the one who should be in court facing a manslaughter charge because of his negligence.

It should be remembered that regulations and standards in any field of life are meant to supplement common sense, not supplant it. Unfortunately society is tending to the view that we no longer need to take responsibility for ourselves because it is easier and more lucrative to blame somebody else for our misfortunes.

Gosh I feel better for that rant. Cliff.

Reply to
Cliff Coggin

All I would add is be truthfull to your insurers, particularly if you are using one of the cheaper online providers. The sort of garden shed included in the description of a standard house used for assessing cover is not what you are describing so not only would it not be covered but by not telling them the relevant information the whole insurance on the whole house may be rendered invalid. If you had a claim, say for a burst pipe or flood etc not involving "the shed", you may have your claim refused or amount paid out reduced as the assessor will look at the whole property to find ways of reducing or denying the liability.

Alan

Reply to
Alan Dawes

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.