Beginning Robotics

I'm in the same boat; it sounds like I'm just a year or so ahead of you.  
For what it's worth, here's what I've found:

- Find a local robotics club.  Some areas have very active ones; others
not so much, but chances are you'll find a few gurus in the area who can
help you with the tricky bits.

- Learn to solder.  I resisted this, due to a bad experience with it
years ago, but I've found that robotics without soldering is basically
impossible for all but tho most limited of kits.  Get a decent soldering
station -- I got mine on eBay for $30, but spending $50-$100 is not
unreasonable -- and if possible, get somebody experienced to help you
get started.  Then just practice.

- Since you say you want to enter competitions and such, you might want
to start by deciding what sort of competitions interest you most.  There
are three main types that I see:

1. "Battle bots" -- basically armored RC cars with destructive weapons.

2. Small wheeled bots -- typically, with an emphasis on sensors and AI,
doing tasks like navigation, line following, and autonomous sumo.

3. Robo-Ones -- mostly popular in Japan, but starting to catch on here
too, these are little humanoid robots that do nondestructive "fighting"
(trying to push knock down or push the other out of a ring) as well as
other events (climbing stairs, working doorknobs, etc.), some of them
autonomous and some remote controlled.

You can certainly dabble in all three, but if you're on a tight budget
it might be sensible to pick your favorite and focus your purchases on
that.  The three categories listed above have rather different hardware
-- battle-bots need a largish, heavy chassis and body plating, and
really strong motors, and almost no sensors; small wheeled bots get by
with light components but need lots of sensors and processor power;
robo-ones consist almost entirely of servos (15-20 of them!) and
brackets, and are probably somewhere between the other two categories in
terms of sensors and computation.

Why not follow up with more information about what interests you -- or
questions about the above categories, if they're not clear -- and we can
direct you to some more specific resources.

You might also post what part of the world you live in; there's a chance
someone else here lives nearby and will be willing to give you a leg up.

Best,
- Joe

first, come up with an idea for something simple you want to build, say
a tea dipping machine or soemthing.

start:
if (os == windows) {
   download("mirc", "http://www.mirc.com/get.html" );
   install ("mirc");
} else if (os == linux) {
  if (NO_XWINDOWS) {
   install("bitchx");
  } else {
   install("xchat");
  }
} else if (os == macos) {
   getPC();
   installOS();
   goto(start);
}

start( irc_application);
set("server", "irc.freenode.org"); // or irc.linux.org
set("channel", "robotics");
ask("who can help me build %s\n", robot_description);

/*
   at this point someone will tell you what you need to forridge for,
printers, vcr's etc etc to make your robot. you may have to invest in
some tools.
*/

  dan

Joe Strout wrote:

There's a bug (or at best, a serious performance problem) in your code
here.  There are dozens of good IRC clients for MacOS, any of which
would be FAR more efficient than using a PC.  :)

Cheers,
- Joe

I suppose not since they are using a freebsd core, but development
applications are generally easier found and worked with on a pc

dan

Joe Strout wrote:

Ah, thank you for this information.

I currently am in Cleveland area, Ohio. I'm going to be moving back to
Albania in a month or so, and I'm almost certain there aren't any robot
clubs there. So, unless there is some type of online club I could get
into I don't know how else it would work.

As far as different types, I don't' really know exactly what I want. I
was just thinking to maybe start making some small-wheeled bots to do
useful stuff....then just keep on programming it to make it better.
After I got some experience I thought some of those battle-bot
competitions would be real cool.

For my first basic robot, would you recommend me making it from a kit?
Like one of those lego things? I heard about that, but I'd really like
to do something that's brain-intensive and involves much more than
snapping pieces together. Are there any books you could recommend to
get me on to some serious building?

I'm looking forward to your response.


Thanks,
George C. Linderman

Joe Strout wrote:

Well, that seems like an odd order of operations to me -- if you want to
get into battle-bot competitions you'd be better off starting with RC
cars (or trucks, or tanks) rather than the small wheeled bots.  Battle
bots have a lot more in common with the former than the latter, and RC
vehicles are a very well-developed hobby that's easy to get into.


Hah -- I see you've never tried to build a LEGO bot (or at least, not
without following directions)!  They're very brain-intensive; the LEGO
just makes it so you don't have to worry as much about fabricating
custom parts.  It's still nontrivial to build a good bot.

So sure, a Mindstorms NXT kit might be a good place to start.  They're
robust, mechanically flexible, and have a very strong online following
where you could get a lot of help (e.g.
http://news.lugnet.com/robotics/ ).

My main complaint with Mindstorms is that the controller can only
control three motors, which isn't very many degrees of freedom.  But
then, I dream of building humanoids with like 15-20 DOF; many hobbyists
have other ambitions, for which 3 DOF is just fine.  You can do a decent
job at robot sumo, for example.


Nope, I have a few robotics books but haven't used them very much, so
I'm no help there.

Best,
- Joe

You can sign up for various clubs on line.  Some are more
chatty than others.


I've been in this hobby for 10 years and I still haven't
managed to put together a robot that does anything "useful".
They do entertain tho'.  I hope that one of these days I
will have a robot that actually does something useful

 > then just keep on programming it to make it better.

The battle-bot stuff is really a lot closer to the RC car
space than autonomous hobby robot space.  We get along.


The Lego stuff is OK and there is a huge on-line community
that you can tap into.  I kept running into the Lego system
limitations (3 motors and 3 inputs) so I moved on.  The NXT
system is better in that it is 3 motors and 4 inputs and
you chain up to three NXT systems together.

For books, _Robot_Building_for_Beginners_ by David Cook
is pretty good.  He has a follow on book called
_Intermediate_Robot_Building_.  Gordon McComb's
_Robot_Builder's_Bonanza:_99_Inexpensive_Robotics_Projects_
is an old standby.  (It is the book that got me started.)
The _Robot_Builder's_Sourcebook:_Over_2,500_Sources_for_Robot_Parts_
by Gordon McComb is also handy to have on the shelf.
Gordon frequently posts on this list.

There are many many more Robotics books, the problem is
picking and choosing between them.  I use inter-library
loan to prevue a book before purchase.  Alas, many of
the Robot books out their are "me to" books that repeat
what is written in other books.  Once you have one or
two beginners books, you probably don't need any more.

Lastly, subscribing to some Robot magazines is a good idea.
There are now two robotics magazines in the US that are focused
on robotics -- "Servo" and "Robot".  A number of magazines
out there are now doing electronic delivery, so you can
just download them over the internet -- Cicuit Cellar,
Everyday Practical Electronics are two such.  Both Servo and
Nuts and Volts have an electronic edition, but you must
be on-line to access them (no off-line viewing.)  I purchase
the annual Servo and Nuts and Volts CD for off-line viewing.

-Wayne


[snip]

I'm thinking about just getting a LEGO Mindstorms kit. I wish there was
a kit that was a bit harder to build...so I'm doing actual soldering
and stuff like that. Do you know of any of these? Also, I had a
question regarding programming robots. Can I use C# to program
mindstorm and other robots? Or only VB? I ask because I know C#, and I
would rather not learn another language.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the help.



Thanks,
George C. Linderman

Not the case!  I download a fresh PDF of both Servo and
Nuts and Volts every month.  On line viewing not required.

Kevin

Kevin:

I stand corrected.  When I went back and looked at the
Nuts and Volts site, there was a download button for downloading
the PDF.  Either it wasn't there when they first offered their
electronic edition, or I simply never saw it.  In fact, I'll
have to call up the folks at Nuts and Volts and Servo and
cancel my paper subscription, since I personally prefer
electronic delivery of magazines.

The reason for focusing on electronic editions of magazines
is that getting paper versions delivered across the pond
to Albania can be an expensive proposition.  Electronic
delivery is much more practical.

-Wayne

hi neo its not hard to make robots, but you need patientce.first you
need to know microcontroller programming. try programming
microcontrollers for running DC and stepper motors then it will be easy
to design robots.the other important thing is the building of body
structure of robots.when you practice two or three bots you will get
experience in this area also.just try.....dont hesitate.


all the best.
regards
kumaresh

everything you need is all around you, the trick is knowing its there
and what to do with it.


kumaresh wrote:

If you're gonna be leaving the country in a month, then you better
stock up on some goodies before you go. Probably less trouble to get
them before you leave.

If you're a beginner, then I'd recommend starting with a small
differentially-steered base, driven by 2 modified R/C servos, and an
easily programmable controller board. I really don't care much for most
full kits, as you probably have a lot more flexibility by putting
together a few basic parts yourself. You can easily do this for
$100-150 range.

I like the mini-sumo bases from junun, and the various differential
steering bases from Gordon McComb's site ...

http://www.junun.org/MarkIII/Store.jsp
http://www.budgetrobotics.com/

I also like the treaded tanks of Gordon's. I have one of his
servo-tanks, which is pretty cool, but he has a couple of new ones too.
The regular mini-sumo bases have a scoop on the front, and won't run
well except on flat hard floors, unless modifed with some kind of a
wheel/etc.

I'd probably stay away from the 4WD bases for a first bot. Also, R/C
servos for drive are a lot easier to interface and control, compared to
going with regular DC motors and h-bridges.

So you need, at minimum ...

(1) base
(1) controller board
(1) sonar
(2) IR proximity detectors or bump switches

Also, maybe a serial LCD readout display, but you can also do a lot
with a few flashing Leds, to indicate operating mode, etc.

For a controller board, I don't have a specific recommendation. I
actually sell some oopic boards, but would actually recommend a Basic
Stamp for a beginner. I don't like the BOEBOT boards myself, as they're
big and lumpy, and not really made for small bots with semi-permanent
interfaces to peripherals. So I don't know of any other specific
carrier boards for the Stamp, but they must be out there.

- dan michaels
www.oricomtech.com
======================

George,

You have received a lot of good advice so far and, as you can see,
there are many ways to start out.  For very self-centered reasons, I
would recommend that you get a subscription to Servo right away.   The
main reason is that Servo is planning to start publishing my series
"Beginner's Robotics on $50 a month" in December. (Yes everyone, I
FINALLY got it done!)  This is a project I have been working on for
around two years  and it might  give you a way to start.  It is aimed
at beginners who have no background in  robotics and want a cookbook
style introduction to the systems and techniques they will be using
most often  in designing and building small mobile robots at a low
monthly cost.

The  series starts by teaching  basic soldering  and then walks you
through building a small robot that. Iin the series the bot is
programmed in BASCOM (a type of BASIC), but can also be programmed in
WINAVR (a type of GCC).  By following the series, you will build and
interface to a microcontroller a programming cable, H bridge motor
drivers, IR obstacle detectors, bump sensors, and light detectors.  You
will also interface sonar, servos, an LCD display, and do interchip
communication.

The series mostly covers hardware which will be the same no matter what
programming language you pick.  Wright Hobbies
(http://www.wrighthobbies.net/index.htm ) is going to provide a kit for
each month so getting parts won't be a problem (although, your shipping
will nudge the cost a little above $50 a month).

Another option you might want to look at is Similey Micros "C
Programming for Microcontrollers" and Butterfly project kit.
(http://www.smileymicros.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=7&MMN_position=9:9 )
You don't build a mobile robot from the kit, but you learn all of the
interfacing  strategies you  need to know in order to build one.

Doing either (or if you can afford to, both) will give you a good start
in the hobby.

Good luck
Catman (Paul Pawelski)


dan michaels wrote:

That sounds like a really great series (Beginning Robotics)... But
there is a problem. We don't really know when we'll be leaving to
Albania again, and to subscribe to the magazine without a permanent
adress would obviously not be wise. If they do international shipping I
will definately consider that as a great option once I move to Albania
(whenever that is).

You can sign up for the electronic edition, thereby avoiding
shipping issues; all you need is internet connectivity.
Contrary to one of my eariler posts, which was incorrect,
you *can* download a .pdf of each issue and browse the magazine
at your convenience.

-Wayne

[snip]