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Too_Many_Tools posted on April 15, 2006, 10:55 pm
I have been looking at the Radio Shack discounted Vex robot and it
occurred to me that it might make a possible "brain transplant" for the
old Heathkit Hero I.
So what do you think....do you think it would work?
TMT
occurred to me that it might make a possible "brain transplant" for the
old Heathkit Hero I.
So what do you think....do you think it would work?
TMT
aiiadict posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
I don't know what is in the VEX, but I suspect it is something
cheap and not very powerful.
Rich
Joe Pfeiffer posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
Compared to an 8080?
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
J. Clarke posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
The Hero 1 (HERO ONE) used a 6800 series processor.
While I am not impressed with the Vex Robotics System for overall value
for your money, I am impressed with the integration within the system.
The power of a robotics computational system lies in how much software
there is that exists...hopefully the Vex system would have more
available than the ancient Heathkit series. Also the sophistication of
the development system is greater.
TMT
Gordon McComb posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
If you're looking to replace the CPU of a HERO, I think an OOPic,
Basic-X, BASIC Stamp, PIC, AVR, HC11/12, etc. is the better choice.
These are more generic processors and are designed for interfacing, and
all have a plethora (as in pinatas) of example code and libraries.
Support is probably the greatest for the BASIC Stamp, but as a processor
it's one of the weakest of this bunch. It is, after all, the oldest
product. (Parallax has new processors coming out, such as the Propeller,
that you might also consider, but because they are new there is less
existing code.) BASCOM and GCC are common languages for the AVR, and
example code and libraries exist for both. The Motorola HC11 and HC12
chips are often used in university-level robotics labs, with robotics
books (e.g. Mobile Robots) and cirriculum written around it. And of
course there are thousands (literally) of examples of using the PIC --
mostly in assembler -- for robotic tasks. The OOPic and Basic-X both
have Yahoo user-groups where a lot of robot-centric code is shared. The
OOPic has numerous built-in objects directly related to robotics
(reading encoders, ultrasound sensors, PWM output, etc.), as its
developer (Scott Savage) is a robotics experimenter.
-- Gordon
Eddy Wright posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
open and expandable processor like the ones he points out. Your choice
could depend on your experience with these controllers, what languages
you can program in and what you are going to interface to. I'm not
familiar with the Hero, so I don't know the number of I/O lines you'll
need.
I personally prefer Bascom. It's one of the best basic compilers
available... The author, Mark Alberts, provides a ton of sample code
and you can find lots of examples on the web.
Eddy
Bill Janssen posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
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Gordon McComb wrote:
If I remember correctly the 68HC11 has a M6800 core with extra
instruction, I/O etc. added
If you have the source code of the software it should be easy to port it
to a HC11.
Bill K7NOM
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Gordon McComb wrote:
<pre wrap="">Too_Many_Tools wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Why? Doesn't the Hero have like 8 8080 processors? "
The Hero 1 (HERO ONE) used a 6800 series processor.
While I am not impressed with the Vex Robotics System for overall value
for your money, I am impressed with the integration within the system.
The power of a robotics computational system lies in how much software
there is that exists...hopefully the Vex system would have more
available than the ancient Heathkit series. Also the sophistication of
the development system is greater.
</blockquote>
If you're looking to replace the CPU of a HERO, I think an OOPic,
Basic-X, BASIC Stamp, PIC, AVR, HC11/12, etc. is the better choice.
These are more generic processors and are designed for interfacing, and
all have a plethora (as in pinatas) of example code and libraries.
</pre>
If I remember correctly the 68HC11 has a M6800 core with extra
instruction, I/O etc. added<br>
If you have the source code of the software it should be easy to port
<br>
<pre wrap="">
Support is probably the greatest for the BASIC Stamp, but as a processor
it's one of the weakest of this bunch. It is, after all, the oldest
product. (Parallax has new processors coming out, such as the Propeller,
that you might also consider, but because they are new there is less
existing code.) BASCOM and GCC are common languages for the AVR, and
example code and libraries exist for both. The Motorola HC11 and HC12
chips are often used in university-level robotics labs, with robotics
books (e.g. Mobile Robots) and cirriculum written around it. And of
course there are thousands (literally) of examples of using the PIC --
mostly in assembler -- for robotic tasks. The OOPic and Basic-X both
have Yahoo user-groups where a lot of robot-centric code is shared. The
OOPic has numerous built-in objects directly related to robotics
(reading encoders, ultrasound sensors, PWM output, etc.), as its
developer (Scott Savage) is a robotics experimenter.
-- Gordon
</blockquote>
</body>
--------------030307090404020103010604--
Christopher X. Candreva posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
: If you're looking to replace the CPU of a HERO, I think an OOPic,
: Basic-X, BASIC Stamp, PIC, AVR, HC11/12, etc. is the better choice.
: These are more generic processors and are designed for interfacing, and
: all have a plethora (as in pinatas) of example code and libraries.
After thinking about good old Hero from a while, and seeing where this
discussion went, let me expand on my earlier "no" with some more specifics.
Forget about processing power, you need to start with what it physically
takes to connect to the Hero.
The Vex controller has 16 IO pins which can be digital or analog, and 8 PWM
which I don't see readily from the info on the net if they are shared with
the other 16.
The Hero-1 has a single drive motor plus at lest seven stepper motors for
steering, head, and the arm. So first, you are going to figure out how to
interface a stepper controller to the Vex, with at most 16 IO pins, and have
enough left for the light, sound, sonar, and voice synth if you want it.
The specific answer to your question would probably come from looking at the
schematics for Hero. I seem to recall only ever moving one arm motor at a
time, because of limitations in it's built in language. Is there a single
stepper driver multiplex to the motors, or a driver for each motor ? How
many pins do the driver(s) use ? Do you want to replace all the motor
drivers too ?
If you seriously want to retrofit any new controller into a Hero, you are
going to want to seriously sit down with the schematics and see what it
is needed to drive it. Sure you can use IO expanders, shift registers, etc.
But 16 IO is not a lot at all for something the size and complexity of Hero.
--
==========================================================
Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/
cbm5 posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
If someone is going through all the trouble to replace the brains of a
HERO, why bother with a zero or marginal performance increase? Slap a
PC104 or Mini-ITX Pentium in there. USB cameras and vision processing.
802.11 wireless networking. Leave the PIC for the tabletop terrors, the
HERO has room for much more. Single-board computers are plentiful on
eBay and a surprising amount of performance can be had for well under $100.
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
Why stop there? Why not just start from scratch and build a new chassis.
A vintage HERO in operating condition has some resale value, probably
enough to fund a brand new robot from the ground up. No limits. Even in
non-operating condition it's often possible to get a few hundred $$$ for
it.
-- Gordon
Dennis Clark posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
they pull so much current the robot can't haul the power line or big
batteries around! :)
Check out Fred Eady's site (www.edtp.com) for PIC or AVR based WiFi
solutions and the ATMega128 (or newer 256 when they come out) as a
co-processor and you get tons of speed and power for small money and way
smaller power needs. A solution like this has the advantage of getting
a WiFi connection to your desktop or laptop machine for serious power to
crunch numbers and you get the benefit of lower costs, better range (on
the batteries) and a form of autonomous abilities as well.
There are so many possibilities these days the mind boggles!
IMO,
DLC
cbm5 wrote:
--
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
Eh, I'm getting about 20 hours off a 400MHz SBC on a motorcycle-battery
sized SLA. With Wifi.
fox posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
I had a Hero Jr. and it had a 6803. I wrote a tiny program that
allowed
a device connected to the serial port to read/write the io subsystems.
Then I connected a <1lb poqet pc back in 1991. The 6803 was quite
adequate for just control and communcation so I didn't need to do a
complete brain trasplant, just a graft. I did add a larger SRAM and
made a small change to the hardware to expand the on-board RAM.
I might be able to dig up the code.
pogo posted on
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
Since the Vex uses some non-standard connectors, etc., I - personally - would go
with something that lends itself better to parts
scrounging. But then again, it's *your* robot --- that means you're in charge &
can do whatever you feel like doing !
I wonder if anyone has done a Vex autopsy or tear-down site on the net yet ?
In the mean time, these may be of interest - found by Googling "heathkit hero
upgrade" ...
http://www.hero2000robots.com/index2.html
http://ww_heco.home.mindspring.com/
Re: Heathkit Hero Brain Transplant
: I have been looking at the Radio Shack discounted Vex robot and it
: occurred to me that it might make a possible "brain transplant" for the
: old Heathkit Hero I.
While it's been about 20 years since I built Hero in my High School lab -- I
would say no.
--
==========================================================
Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/
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