making a bot follow an invisible track

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I want to make vehicles crawl around a LEGO town following a path I
define -- but in some invisible way, so the onlookers can't see how it
works.  What are my options?  Here are some I've thought of, but perhaps
you can think of something better:

1. Put strong magnets under the road, every few cm, maybe closer
together on the curves.  Magnetic sensors of some sort (maybe just reed
switches would do?) in the car would use this to steer, much like a
traditional optical line-follower.  Problems: the road can be almost a
cm thick itself, which would necessitate the use of strong (and
therefore expensive) magnets.

2. Put cheap iron bars or balls (or whatever) under the road, and a
strong magnet on a swivel in the car.  The magnet should point at the
nearest iron, and we can detect that (maybe by bouncing an LED off it)
and use it to steer.  I'm not sure if this would work reliably.

3. Er... getting short on ideas here, but if we could embed some sort of
navigation beacons in the town layout, then in principle you could make
the cars "programmable" by manually pushing them once around the path
you want them to follow, and they should be able to repeat that path
again and again.  But I'm not sure what sort of navigation beacons would
be appropriate -- remember, neither the car nor the town is supposed to
have any visible gadgetry; it's supposed to look like the minifigs are
just driving their cars.

4. Really scraping the barrel, could we do some sort of optical
line-follower but not in the visible light range?  Something we could
use to paint a line on the road that would be invisible to humans, but
visible to the car's sensors?

Any insight on the above ideas, or new ideas I haven't considered?

Many thanks,
- Joe

Re: making a bot follow an invisible track



A buried wire fed by an ac  signal for the bot to center on would probably
be a good way to go.

Mark



Re: making a bot follow an invisible track



Can you elaborate on this?  What sort of sensors would the bot use to
detect such a wire?

Thanks,
- Joe

Re: making a bot follow an invisible track


Joe:

It sounds like you want a wire guide.  Here's a URL:

   <http://www.philohome.com/sensors/filoguide.htm>

Enjoy,

-Wayne

Re: making a bot follow an invisible track



Thanks, that looks very useful!

Best,
- Joe

Re: making a bot follow an invisible track

I think option 4. would be cheapest.   You could use one of those secret
message pen/marker sets that are in dollar stores to draw your line.  Then
use a UV(Ultra violet lamp/led under your car to light up your line for you
line tracker.  I'm not an expert but it might just work.




Re: making a bot follow an invisible track


I like this idea. Basically, you use a moving "black room" over your
sensors (a good shade) to keep out outside light, and illuminate the
interior with UV LED's. The rest is straight line following. But the
best sensors would be CdS, because of their broad sensitivity
sepctrum. Dpa uses these and a white light source on SR04 quite
successfully. He uses white light to illuminate the line, and can then
follow white lines on black, or black on white, etc.

OTOH, most of the line sensors, like the QRB1134 are IR based. It is
easy to use UV to cause flourescence by down conversion of higher
frequency light to lower level band gap drops. I don't think it is
nearly as easy to get up-shifting of IR into the visible (a process of
double absorbtion of lower energy photons with final release of a
higher one). However, if you were to stay in the IR band, there might
be a substance that would be IR reflective, yet transparent to visible
light, and then, you could line follow an IR reflective line with just
existing line follow equipment.

--
Randy M. Dumse
www.newmicros.com
Objects in mirror are more confused than they appear.


Re: making a bot follow an invisible track



That does seem like a good idea.  Something like this maybe:
<http://www.amazon.com/Security-Marking-Batteries-Included-DRIUV8000B/dp/
B000GATXIY/ref=pd_bxgy_k_text_b/002-4586816-9189602>  ...which is under
$3 for the marker.  Then I'd just need a UV LED, maybe something like
Mouser part 889-LU531, which is also under $3.

Even better than a permanent ink would be one that can be washed off...
LEGO fans hate to permanently modify their parts, even with something
invisible.  But these inks are usually used for security labeling, and
they wouldn't be much good for that if they were washable.  So I might
have to just live with permanent ink.


Yes.  I haven't heard of any such IR inks though.  And a regular LEGO
surface (even a black one, I think) reflects IR pretty well, so we'd
have trouble achieving much contrast that way.

Thanks for the ideas, guys!
- Joe

Re: making a bot follow an invisible track



Sorry to bump an old post, but I just ran across this and remembered
this thread.

Invisible IR Ink: http://www.maxmax.com/aXRayIRInks.asp

Sounds handy. IR detection would probably be much easier and cheaper
than UV.

-Robotguy
http://robotguy.net/blog


Re: making a bot follow an invisible track



Well, the idea with the UV ink is to simple shine a UV LED on it (these
are pretty cheap), and then detect the visible-light fluorescence.

But that would mean that anybody peeking under the car could see a
glowing line.  This IR ink should be completely invisible even while the
bot is tracking it.  Sounds very neat -- thank you!

Best,
- Joe

Re: making a bot follow an invisible track


Several years ago I experimented with infrared inks as a camcorder
pirate deterrent. The idea was to "spraypaint" (using a robotic rig
similar to those in painting signs) an identifying number or mark over
the screen in a theater. Xenon light sources, common in theatrical
projectors, carry strong lines in the near infrared region of
800-1000nm. Most camcorders, even color and those with infrared blocking
filters on them, are still infrared sensitive. The ink was of the type
that fluoresced only into the infrared region, so the human eye could
not see it. The idea was that trying to video the screen would result in
these ID numbers appearing throughout the movie, making for a lousy
pirated tape.

The problem was one of cost as these inks and applying them are pretty
expensive -- even before getting the theaters interested, and they don't
like to spend money on anything. Then I had the idea of doing it with a
small IR laser from the projection booth, but it wasn't bright enough.
Back to the drawing board...

-- Gordon

Re: making a bot follow an invisible track


The light source doesn't need to be a laser. How about the light
source being a set of IR LED's, which are arranged in a
pattern(perhaps representing a binary number), then using a regular
lens to focus their light onto the screen.  Alternatively, the LEDs
can be behind the screen.  Perhaps they would shine through the screen
material, or small holes can be made for the light to come through.

Joe Dunfee


Re: making a bot follow an invisible track


Already covered by a patent from another company (Macrovision). Simple
"spoiling" IR lights are already used in some theaters.


Well-known suggestion in the industry, and generally too expensive to
implement (it *is* in use in some theaters). The actual hardware isn't
too expensive, at least now, but the installation labor is a couple
thousand per screen, more than what most theaters are willing to pay to
protect someone else's IP. When you consider providing power (gotta be
OSHA/UL approved), creating the scaffolding/harness to hang the devices
(they can't just be glued to the back of the screen), the signal wiring
from the booth, the cost of the IR clusters, etc., it really adds up.

Thing is, with digital cinema rolling out, and the ability to insert
individualized forensic marking in real time, the IR solutions are
taking a second seat.

-- Gordon

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