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Ike posted on 
Need a place to build your stuff in the San Francisco bay area?
San Mateo, CA , April 22, 2006 -- Jim Newton and Ridge McGhee announced
this week that they are forming a project called "TechShop", which will
be an open-access public workshop located on the San Francisco
peninsula.
"There are a lot of people on the peninsula who want to make things
with their hands, including inventions, robots, and all sorts of
things," said TechShop's founder, Jim Newton. "The problem is that very
few people can put their own machine shop and fabrication facility
together."
That's where TechShop comes in.
TechShop will provide members with inexpensive daily or monthly
unlimited access to a full range of tools and equipment including
milling machines, lathes, sheet metal equipment, welders, plastic
casting and vacuum forming stations, electronic circuit design and
prototyping tools, a 3D printer, laser cutter, automotive tools, keyway
cutters, tachometers and torque meters, scales, and just about every
other tool and machine you would ever need.
"We will also offer one-hour 'Building Block' classes to get you safely
up-to-speed on a tool or machine, as well as longer term in-depth
classes," said co-founder Ridge McGhee. "We will also offer a range of
programs for kids and kids and parents, including programs for
home-schooled kids."
"If people want to learn how to use a tool like a welder or a milling
machine, they have to take a class at a local college or school, and
take some extra lab time. But after the school-required project is
completed, you no longer have access to the shop. Later when you want
to use your new skill for a project of your own, you can't get access
to the equipment. TechShop turns this model on its head," said Newton.
TechShop is scheduled to open in July of 2006 as a non-profit 501(c)(3)
organization. Daily unlimited access is planned to be priced at $25,
and monthly unlimited access is planned to be $100. Newton and Ridge
plan to offer members access to the TechShop facility 24 hours a day, 7
days a week.
TechShop is an open-access public workshop for people who like to work
with their hands with metals, plastics, wood and electronics but do not
have access to a shop or equipment.
More information is available at the TechShop web site at
http://www.techshop.ws/ .
# # #
San Mateo, CA , April 22, 2006 -- Jim Newton and Ridge McGhee announced
this week that they are forming a project called "TechShop", which will
be an open-access public workshop located on the San Francisco
peninsula.
"There are a lot of people on the peninsula who want to make things
with their hands, including inventions, robots, and all sorts of
things," said TechShop's founder, Jim Newton. "The problem is that very
few people can put their own machine shop and fabrication facility
together."
That's where TechShop comes in.
TechShop will provide members with inexpensive daily or monthly
unlimited access to a full range of tools and equipment including
milling machines, lathes, sheet metal equipment, welders, plastic
casting and vacuum forming stations, electronic circuit design and
prototyping tools, a 3D printer, laser cutter, automotive tools, keyway
cutters, tachometers and torque meters, scales, and just about every
other tool and machine you would ever need.
"We will also offer one-hour 'Building Block' classes to get you safely
up-to-speed on a tool or machine, as well as longer term in-depth
classes," said co-founder Ridge McGhee. "We will also offer a range of
programs for kids and kids and parents, including programs for
home-schooled kids."
"If people want to learn how to use a tool like a welder or a milling
machine, they have to take a class at a local college or school, and
take some extra lab time. But after the school-required project is
completed, you no longer have access to the shop. Later when you want
to use your new skill for a project of your own, you can't get access
to the equipment. TechShop turns this model on its head," said Newton.
TechShop is scheduled to open in July of 2006 as a non-profit 501(c)(3)
organization. Daily unlimited access is planned to be priced at $25,
and monthly unlimited access is planned to be $100. Newton and Ridge
plan to offer members access to the TechShop facility 24 hours a day, 7
days a week.
TechShop is an open-access public workshop for people who like to work
with their hands with metals, plastics, wood and electronics but do not
have access to a shop or equipment.
More information is available at the TechShop web site at
http://www.techshop.ws/ .
# # #
Padu posted on
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
Kudos for Jim!
Gordon McComb posted on
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
John B., who you met at one of the SD meetings, had this idea a while
back. We talked about it, but in addition to the sizable startup costs,
we realized the liability insurance would about do you in (waivers are
seldom adequate, and people sue regardless of the paper they've signed).
I'm not sure how Jim and Ridge are handling this, but it's what keeps
most auto parts stores from allowing you to work on your car on their
parking lot. We Americans are funny: we cut our thumb on someone else's
property and we sue *them*, even though it's our fault!
Good luck to Jim and Ridge, though. It's a cool idea, and I hope they
can make a go of it.
-- Gordon
steamer posted on
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
to "franchise" the idea in some way, so you might want to get in touch and
find out how they're overcoming the legal hurdles and get in on the fun.
Heck, I'd *love* it if the wife dragged me along to go visit the kids (who
live in your area), if it meant I could escape to a shop like this, heh.
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : I'll have the roast duck
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : with the mango salsa...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
cbm5 posted on
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
I had this idea independently not long ago. For a long time I've lived
in apartments with no easy way to build heavier projects. Now I don't
have to deal with all the headaches of starting this up myself.
The great thing is I'm moving to the Bay Area next month, and will
DEFINITELY be checking this out.
So if anyone goes to this, see you there. Oh, and Maker Faire next
year...so sad I missed it last week.
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
Not sure how much traction Jim will have in franchising an idea, but the
thing about legal liability is that there's no way to really "deal" with
it except to have lots of insurance. Having power tools around people
who have not been fully trained on them scares the s**t out of me, as a
business owner, but if anything, the people who get into this will be
successful simply by accepting this as a business risk. That's the main
barrier to entry that I see in such such a venture. I have no doubt it
will prove successful.
-- Gordon
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
I'm actually worried about the whole success aspect. While I really look
forward to this and fully intend to be a member, I don't know if they
can get enough members to offset the huge investment cost. It depends on
the quality of the tools they are buying. For example, if they bought a
used regular mill and converted it to CNC, the price would be multiple
tens of thousands of dollars different. But then they don't have the
state-of-the art technology they seem to be advertising.
To do a little math, I heard numbers like "hundreds" as far as people
that showed interest. Assume they get 300 people who actually use
it...I'm being generous for a startup. If 150 people do the 100/mo
option and 150 people do the 25/day option and use the shop twice,
that's a total of $22,500 for the month, or $270,000 a year, before
taxes. Now, they have to pay taxes, the aforementioned liability
insurance, rent or payments on the space (which will have to be pretty
large), heating and electric and water bills, property assessment. And
from what's left over they have to pay for the machines, the retooling
when bits and blades wear out, etc.
And if they assume many more people will be using the shop, it begins to
sound very crowded. There will be a critical point where it's not worth
paying for the membership because the available machine time isn't
there. And the only way to fix it is to buy more equipment, resulting in
more cost.
To be honest, I think the $100/month is infeasible from a business
standpoint. If they can get thousands of members who only use the place
5 days a month so the 100 dollar option is cheaper, then I see it
working. But I don't know if that many people fit all the demographic
requirements to be regular customers.
Again, I HOPE it works, because I want this. I'm just mystified at this
point how it actually might work.
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
Not sure about all the tools, but the "slide show" on the Web site seems
to suggest many of the tools are used, some fairly heavily. They might
have been donated, or from surplus, or from someone's own garage.
Nothing wrong with well-made used tools, as long as their safety
features have not been removed.
I guess if it were my business I'd probably charge additionally for some
of the machines, if not only to offset the higher cost of operating them
(and getting a replacement when they wear out) but also to keep people
from hogging them. The laser machine or 3D ABS former has a definite
higher cost associated with it than say, the band saw.
-- Gordon
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
In that case all they have to worry about is maintaining the space and
tools and buying the insurance. Since this is a 501c they shouldn't have
too much trouble breaking even. I'm really going on experience with
commercial shops, where a $150,000 tool that does the same things as a
$10,000 tool still pays for itself in either faster production or
greater reliability. For self-operating hobbyists, the shop isn't
getting sued if a part is 0.001" off.
That might happen in the future, but for now it looks like the barrier
to operating the complicated stuff will be a mandatory class and
checkout. At the very least that will ensure users get the job done
somewhat faster since they have a clue.
I haven't heard much about materials stocking...a lot of people have no
idea where to get stock metals and plastics, and buying in small
quantities can be expensive. If they stocked some basic materials people
could buy, that would remove yet another barrier. Same idea for
electronics, it would be valuable to have a good stock of common
components and hardware, to sell at cost. I know they'll have some
electronics equipment but a decent sized build/test lab would be useful.
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
I think it might be more than that. There's bit and blade replacement
costs, which for some of the tools can be hefty (replacing a C02 laser
in the laser cutter can cost several thousand), tool replacement costs,
tool repair costs, ongoing utility costs (electricity, gas, water), etc.
etc.
A non-profit doesn't always mean lower *operating* costs, especially if
the principals draw a salary from the business (for which they have to
pay income tax, as only the 501(c) doesn't pay tax). Also, the
side-effect of have a 501(c) business is that principals can be
personally held accountable under certain circumstances, which is an
additional risk for anyone setting up such an entity. Because it's a
public trust there are additional requirements made on the people who
run it.
The lawsuit exposure I was thinking about was more personal injury. I
believe (though I'm no expert here) that a 501(c) would also need
directors and officers insurance, which can cost several thousand per
year.
Maybe, maybe not. Even with instruction and class certification injuries
could occur, and they could just as easily occur during the class. Some
of these tools require skill, not just knowledge. Seasoned pros get
injured and killed on the job, and contractors carry immense insurance
to pay for it. While mandatory classes could reduce the risk of
accidents during a customer's non-supervised use of the tool, it doesn't
necessarily reduce the potential for lawsuits, and it doesn't alleviate
the need for insurance.
-- Gordon
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
It's not fun to see what happens when someone gets a jacket sleeve
caught in the lathe they were operating. I hope they have experienced
people roaming the shop floor watching for this stuff like hawks.
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
About 25 years ago I worked as a trainer in an industrial plant that
specialized in military connectors. Place was full of metal lathes,
hydraulic presses, progressive stamping/punching machines, etc. They had
yellow lines painted on the floor to show the work envelope of the
machine. If you were not the operator, and you were standing within the
line while it was operating, it was cause for dismissal.
Operators of the hydraulic presses were required to sit in a harness
where cables were attached to cuffs around their wrists. The cables
pulled tight when the press went down, making it impossible to have a
hand in the way. The machine would locked out if the operator were not
seated, and buckled in.
I regularly stop by ULINE to pick up packaging material. Their forklift
operator is in a pull-back harness that essentially prevents him from
operating the machine in an unsafe manner, or being thrown from the
machine and having it run over him. All businesses I am familiar with
require a person to be certified before they operate the machine.
I think this kind of care in operating safety goes beyond "recommended
but optional" in today's business setting.
But again, I laud the concept of TechShop, but I'm glad I'm not running
it! <g>
-- Gordon
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
(SNIP)
--Actually, when I get to thinking about it, the two *most* dangerous
shop tools are for woodworking and will probably not be part of their
quiver: notably the jointer/planer and the tablesaw. Now, there are a bevy
of woodworking classes going on at the Woodcraft stores and presumably a few
folks are in there working on their own projects. The question is: how does
Woodcraft structure their protection from irate fingerless dropouts? Any
business model along those lines ought to work.
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : I'll have the roast duck
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : with the mango salsa...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
Re: TechShop To Open Public Workshop on the SF Peninsula
Don't know about Woodcraft particularly, but manufacturers and retailers
of power tools have to pay some pretty hefty liability insurance costs
(some hundreds of thousands of dollars per year), but they also rely on
existing case law that generally finds in the manufacturer's/retailer's
favor as long as the product meets or exceeds minimum recognized safety
standards. They still get sued, and they still have to pay for that
defense, in addition to the insurance costs.
The problem with a school, club, or business than loans out tools for
use on their premises is that even with a waiver personal injury claims
could be made because the management "knew, or should have known" the
inherent dangers involved in using the tool. I think it would be
particularly difficult to defend such a lawsuit if instruction is not
required prior to the use of the tool.
Regardless of whether the busines is an LLC, 501(c), or whatever,
lawsuits can still be filed against the business, and they still need
the liability insurance, which costs what it costs. Woodcraft's classes
(not so much open-ended tool rental) often cost money. The $20, $50, or
whatever they charge for a class may go more to the cost of the
insurance! They are, after all, in the business of selling the tools to
you, so they make money on both ends.
-- Gordon
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