Worm Gearbox as substitute for servo

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I've been investigating the possibility of using a worm gearbox with
encoder as a more economical substitute for servos, even for things like
Robo-One humanoids.  It sounds nutty, but it just might work!

Let's start with the Tamiya Worm Gear Box HE [1] (about $10).  This can
be assembled with two gear ratios, 216:1 and 336:1.  It comes with a
Mabuchi RE-260 motor, which gives us roughly:

  No gearing:    15 g cm of torque at 8300 RPM
  216:1 gear:  3240 g cm of torque at 38.4 RPM
  336:1 gear:  5040 g cm of torque at 24.7 RPM

So we're over 5 kg cm of torque right out of the box.  But Mabuchi makes
a variety of stronger motors [2] which are only slightly larger; I'm
sure we could use them anyway since the motor doesn't really sit inside
this gearbox.  There's the RE-280, which is a bit faster and stronger,
and then there's the RE-360, which is over twice as strong:

  No gearing:    32 g cm of torque at 8321 RPM
  216:1 gear:  6912 g cm of torque at 38.5 RPM
  336:1 gear: 10752 g cm of torque at 24.8 RPM

Now we've got over 10 kg cm of torque, which is what I've been told is
necessary for at least some of the joints in a humanoid robot (probably
the legs and hips in particular).  Compare this to the Hitec HS-5945MG
digital servo, which generates 9200 g cm of torque, and has a speed
equivalent to 62.5 RPM.  Yes, that's over twice as fast -- but it also
costs $90.

I haven't found a source yet for the RE-360, but the RE-260 costs about
$2, and the RE-280 (the next step down from the RE-360) is $2.25, so I
doubt the RE-360 costs more than $5 or so.  We're at about $15 for the
gearbox and better motor.  (Note that this motor was the result of a
pretty quick search; more searching might turn up a faster one, to make
up that lost speed without losing torque.)

Of course, we still need an encoder scheme; this can be done with a
quadrature encoder and an additional optical interrupt switch [3], which
add a couple more bucks to the total.

It's also possible that you could ditch the quadrature encoder and use
another simple opto switch, under the assumption that you know which way
you're driving the motor, as at least one guy has done [4].  Since this
uses a worm gear, it can't be driven from the outside, and if any errors
do creep in, you can clear them every time you cross your zero point
(which you detect via the other opto switch).

You would of course still need a motor controller.  Something custom to
this application might be appropriate, especially if you're planning a
bot with 20 of these things.

So to me, it looks like for under $25 or so, you could get performance
comparable to a $90 servo, and have the added benefit of a very
convenient form factor and a complete through-shaft for making nice
balanced joints.  (In fact, I suspect that you could get by with less
torque because you're driving a joint axle, instead of only driving one
side of a joint as most servos do.)

What do you think?  Am I off my rocker?

Cheers,
- Joe

[1] http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-idr004
[2]
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/edward.matthews/ddmbc_files/motors/mabuchi.h
tm
[3]
http://www.strout.net/info/robotics/ideas/cheap-servo-alternative.html
[4] http://www.instructables.com/id/EOWNKDH2JMEQHO9934/

Re: Worm Gearbox as substitute for servo


    Most worm drives won't back-drive, so you're stuck with dumb
positioning mode.  Can't do force feedback.

    If you want to get really clever, though, look up
"series elastic actuators".  That's a gear drive followed
by a spring, with a sensor to report how much the spring
is compressed. It's a trick for making worm drives back
driveable by software means.  You don't get any useful
energy recovery; the spring is too stiff.

    If you want to get really really clever, the right
answer is probably a gear drive followed by a spring
followed by a fast electrically-actuated brake, so
you can do things like jump by setting the brake,
winding up the spring, and releasing the brake.
Real legged running robots need such mechanisms.

    None of this advanced stuff is going to be easy to build
out of standard R/C parts, but for those of you into
machine shop work, stereolithography, and mechatronics,
those are directions to explore.

    Something to think about if you're doing R&D in this area
is using a stereolithography method like SLA or SLS.  SLS
can be used to make nylon parts, and SLA can now make ABS
parts.  Costs are high, but cost is proportional to object
size, so small parts aren't too bad.  We're still talking
about $100-$200 per run, but part complexity doesn't matter.
(That's your problem; you have to send in a 3D CAD file.)

                John Nagle

Re: Worm Gearbox as substitute for servo



Not entirely dumb: the central controller would have access to the
position of each joint.  So if something's blocking it, it would know.  
(It could perhaps also have access to the current consumption of each
motor, which would be another clue when one has stalled.)

But I agree you couldn't do manual positioning of the robot as a way of
programming poses, which is a neat trick -- not one I'm willing to pay
$90 per servo for, though.


That IS a neat idea.  It might also put a little forgiveness into the
system, so it doesn't break when my toddler tries to force it.


That sounds cool.  A bit more than I want to bite off right now, but
maybe something to shoot for.


Right; it also reinforces my urge to go with these gearboxes instead of
standard servos.

Thanks,
- Joe

Re: Worm Gearbox as substitute for servo


These motors are a lot bigger than servos, so it goes your robot would
be big, too. However, no idea shouldn't be tried. Maybe a larger
Robo-One biped without the sticker shock is what people are looking for.

-- Gordon

Re: Worm Gearbox as substitute for servo



Well, it looks to me like the motor + gearbox is about 50% longer than a
servo box, but it's also narrower.  So it would tend to produce a
humanoid with longer, slightly thinner (and more humanlike, IMHO) limbs.  
Probably wouldn't make the best Robo-One competitor, but as you say,
maybe it should be tried anyway.

Best,
- Joe

Re: Worm Gearbox as substitute for servo

Joe:

Joe Strout wrote:

[much snippage]

I've always had a soft spot for the Tamiya Worm Gear Box.
I once designed a board for it, but I never populated the
board with chips and debugged it.  Here's the URL:

   <http://gramlich.net/projects/robobricks/motorscan/index.html>

I'd design it quite differently now.


Actually, I was able to design a quadrature encoder that fits
inside of a Tamiya twin gear box.  Here's the URL:

   <http://gramlich.net/projects/robobricks/twingearsensorleft/index.html>
   <http://gramlich.net/projects/robobricks/twingearsensorright/index.html>

The concept is that the PCB fits inside of the gearbox.
One of the gears has a Black and White spoke pattern painted
onto it using nail polish.  (Yes, Black and White nail
polish can be purchased at the local drug store!  I have
no idea who wears it, but I'm sure the drug store wouldn't
stock it unless somebody actually bought the stuff.  Go
figure.)

Add a microcontroller and a LS7377 (my favorite quad shaft
encoder chip) and you have a full shaft servo that that can
hold a position without conusuming power and is quite
inexpensive.

-Wayne

Re: Worm Gearbox as substitute for servo

Have you considered "10 turn" potentiometers.  Another is a magnetic pickup
on the wheel/axle.   I understand thats how ABS systems in vehicles sense
wheel spin/lock.  Something similar might work if scaled down.  Not alot of
fine motor control just rough position guessing.



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