Kit value? Grab something - this is unREAL!

Seen an auction like that one time on a Citation Patriot. Turned out that the bids were bogus. Someone's a few fries short of a happy meal if they're going to pay 500.00+ for a LJ kit. It's not much different from the ematch madness witnessed on ROL a little while ago. Frakking morons.

It's ridiculous to pay such high amounts for *any* kit that can be cloned with relative ease. And also consider that Semroc has announced their own RetroRepro of the Little Joe II. The *only* reason to purchase such old kits, is if one is

*strictly* a collector, and who *must* have a certain specific packaging...but even then...

:o)

This one is in-line with value and sales history. If it stays under $600.00 then gratz to the winner. Now I have NOTHING to do with the listing, nor will I bid on it. I will explain why it's worth its weight in gold to SOME collectors.

This is the 1/45 scale version, NOT the 1/70th scale version Semroc will release in the near future. It's a historic model and not some Sci-fi fantasy kit (some commercially licensed sci-fi kits are valuable also). There are no currently available kit instances being offered, unless you count the micro-maxx version. The kit was offered by the Centuri Engineering Co. which is no longer (sorry a shell corporation doesn't count). Cloning the kit in plastic would be costly and time consuming. Cloning the kit in paper would cost less, but the corrugations, fairings, fins, et al., would have to be done by balsa/bass and would add time to the build process ... what is your time worth? $10/hr, $30/hr, $60/hr, $120/hr?

Finding a kit in UNOPENED factory sealed condition ... how many 14 year olds back then could keep their mitts off and out of a Little Joe II box? How many could have even afforded the $15? Back then, I passed up the super expensive kits in favor of quantity of lesser priced kits.

The Centuri 1/45 Little Joe II, V-2, and Saturn IB are the pinnacles of scale kits offered back then. Similar to what an old Colt revolver is to a gun collector. Yes it's a lot of money, but didn't thousands of people pay $1000.00, $2000.00+ for a XBOX just 3-4 months ago? In 5 years, that XBOX will be a door stop ... can the same be said about the

1/45th Scale Little Joe II? I didn't think so ...

I disagree ... there are kits that I would pay over $1000.00 if I could find them in the RIGHT condition. The 1/45th scale, isn't an EASY kit to clone ... for that matter, neither is the 1/70th scale kit. Both have an intricate escape tower, body corrugations, fairings, scale decals, metallic bodies ... not like cloning an Alpha or Astro 1.

Semroc will be re-releasing the 1/70th "K" kit Estes's version. Its body detailing is simpler, but still requires scale decals, and an elaborate escape tower. I would agree that this can EASILY be cloned with respect to the materials needed, e.g. it's all paper and balsa, with no large blow molded fairings, CM, or escape tower. It is STILL a challenging kit to build.

Well packaging matters, but then so does the subject within. Also the history of the kit and its impact on the model rocket industry as a whole. The quality of the kit.

Here is a thought ... why spend $1500.00 on a computer that within 5 years will be obsolete? So you want to play Halo 2 or the latest WWII first person shooter ... so you spend $400 for the best video card to make your action game as near reality as possible ... in 5 years it will be junk compared to other video cards ... so why invest the money? Why throw it away? Same can be said with a car. In 10 years, most cars will be obsolete. Why spend $12,000.00 for something that only depreciates over time? Money is a tool to get what you want and need. $600.00 today will be worth $300.00 or less in 20 years. If you can afford a $500.00+ Little Joe II, then good for you. Some people buy $30,000.00 golf club sets ... good for them. Some people buy $750,000.00 houses ... good for them. It's all about what you want out of life and what you can afford.

In southern California that's a "fixer-upper"...

David Erbas-White

Yep. In San Diego, that's average.

Randy

snip of some good points...

I understand, if it makes them happy. I'm just not one of those people. My practical side takes over in such cases.

Still, I wish I had kept my mitts off of a few kits I had back in the late

60's. I just never thought a $5 rocket would ever sell for over $500.

OY VEY! Randy

Randy,

I am NOT trying to beat up on you. Just raising some points about collecting ... yes there are dumb people in rocket collecting. An example would be a couple of auctions that closed on ebay by Great Lakes Hobbies (GLH). Now they had two kits that are desired by collectors: The Interceptor and the Disney Black Hole probe. The interceptor went for its TRADITIONAL high price ... around $160, and the Black Hole probe went for 40 some dollars ... I was shocked and laughed.

The Interceptor was produced for many years and 10's of thousands of them were made over the production run. The BH probe was only made for less than one year and is a Disney licensed collectible only produced in the few thousands. The BH probe also covers two collecting camps, model rockets and Disneyana. Same thing with the Strombecker Disney spaceships of the 50s.

The BH probe is a far rarer harder to find kit, and has a HISTORY in Disney Sci-Fi film lore, yet people decided that the Interceptor was worth 4 times more ... despite the Interceptor being 10 times more common ... go figure :)

That is the thing about collecting ... there are no guarantees to logic :)

I just want to pull out my last strands of hair when I attend club flea markets, and someone tells me that they payed X dollars 10 years ago, and won't let something go for anything short of n*x + y ! (n being a whole number, greater than 1), haven't seem any x*x yet, but there is still time ... its free market :)

As a side note, the quality of some of the clones is unbelievable. I just got my Semroc Mars Lander the other day -- to say I was blown away is an understatement:

And QModeling has some great 'upscales' of some of the old favorites, and their engine mounts are an engineering marvel...

Not to mention FlisKits, Sunward, et al -- I'm actually happier with the selection we have now than when I was a kid (mainly because now I can afford them -- but don't have as much time to 'play' with them -- I guess it's a wash ).

Once the legal problems are behind us, I'd really like to see some concentrated efforts made to 'grow' the hobby. If we could have taken (better) advantage of the rocket episodes on TV over the past couple of years, I think we'd start to see a resurgence -- but we just don't have the infrastructure in place to take advantage of these opportunities as quickly as they appear.

David Erbas-White

Randy wrote:

Except in Trona, You could get about two dozen "fixer-uppers" for that kind of money.

The downside is, it's Trona.

you see that rare 1966 Centuri catalog went for $245?(approx)

shockie B)

snip

No offense taken. : )

I understand what you're saying.

Randy

Yep, I've seen several cloned kits that were outstanding maybe better than original.

Did you get a look at the Viper's we just finished? Thanks to Tom's decals at Tango Papa and Mike's nose cones at Moldin Oldies, to me, they are much better than the original kit I got from Estes. Not including shipping, the total cost for 4 was less than $70. The original kits go for around $55-$65.

Randy

OMG ... for $200 each, I will let my 6 1966 Catalogs go ... wonder what my 1964 is worth?!

shockwaveriderz wrote:

Perhaps...but it is *still* everyday, basic model building, and far less complicated than scratchbuilding a typical

1/35th scale armor vehicle, or even a moderate 1/48th scale aircraft conversion. And nowhere near as complicated as the typical work needed in sculpting figures, etc.

That....I can't relate to...lol...as I am still doing my computing on a 6 year old AMD K6-II machine, with an even older BIOS (Linux makes it easy to get maximum performance from older equipment). As far as the graphics card and games...I have never been a computer gamer (except for the basic games that come with an O/S). My "gaming" is usually limited to the old SPI and GDW "paper and cardboard" wargames.

:o)

That is a pity... and what could that buy in Reo Rancho ?

Great! pastrick sold one ofr over $600 a while back. That makes the mint one I have now sporting a Lee Piester autograph worth even more...

I wasn't sure what to have him autograph until the Q&A session after his NARCON talk. Someone asked him what his all time favorite kit was, and the big LJII was his response. Alas, he said he kept very little of any of the old product, so even Lee doesn't have one of them. Unless he's the bidder on this auction.

Such as???

The LJII was never a $5 rocket. $12.95 IIRC, in 1970 dollars. That a 38.5x increase, and much of that is due to inflation.

In 1970 a new car cost about $2000. By that same increase, it would be $77000 today. What's the price you've seen lately on a MINT, NEVER BEEN DRIVEN 1970 Camaro or Mustang?

BTW, I've got TWO of the big LJIIs in the basement :-)