OT: July 14th

"OSWELCH" a formulé la demande :

Yes Scott, you're right, nobody's perfect...

Reply to
Flying Frog
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cmon, give Flying Frog some credit, ok i dont buy Frecnh stuff, cos of the support(lack of) over the war, but he raises points which he belives in, he admits the French arnt always right, yes have a good manaured debate but not ot the extent you insult him......yes i said that! I wished him well over that French holiday a couple of days back and left it at that, he has a right to make a point of view without being insulted personally for everything France has done over the past 100 years etc.

Reply to
Julian Hales

"Scott Lowther" wrote in >

Oh, cut the shit.

"They tried their damndest to protect their business buddy, Saddam Hussein. At the expense of the people of Iraq, and at the peril of the rest of the world. How is this "the right thing?"

"Instead, the US went to war to end a dangerous dictatorship, and the French government tried to prevent the end of that dictatorship."

That's you both times. And neither has anything to do with Bastille Day. You're shoving your big stupid face into a thread about French independence to complain about current affairs.

Reply to
Dan

do you have a direct quote of that or are you reading in that sentiment?

Reply to
e

a good point. i certainly don't take credit, or accept blame for everything the u.s. government does.

Reply to
e

"e" a pensé très fort :

Yep, the same for me with "my" government. People is people, government is another thing, to often really different from de people.

Reply to
Flying Frog

Um - why would you quote an *Englishman* as evidence the French feel a certain way? Just curious...

Reply to
Dan

i often don't call it my government. i feel very under represented.

Reply to
e

I've read all these comments and I'm only going to make one, then leave it alone.

I've had some French friends over the years (and still have a good friend who's an officer in the Armee de la Air. However, I'm pissed off at France right now for their stance - not necessarily at individual French people, but at France. I may not always be pissed at France, but I am right now.

A great cousin on my mother's side (and an ethnic German) was serving as a medical platoon commander (ambulance) in the US Army. He took a leave of absence in 1914 and in early 1915 went to France to serve in the volunteer American Field Service Ambulance Corps.

He was wounded twice while rescuing wounded French soldiers on the bloody battlefields and, in the fall of 1916, returned to the US to recuperate from his second wound (the French awarded him a Croix de' guerre (w/one bronze star and 2 bronze palms), a Legion d' Honneuer, and two "red star" wound medals (although they came many years later).

After recovering from his wound, he reentered the Army and returned to France with the AEF in 1917 as an ambulance company commander. He received two Silver Star devices and was wounded again in the last major push of the war in Nov

1918. After recuperating in England for three months, he returned to the US.

He passed away when I was 10 but I remember how he used to talk to me about how proud he had felt during and after WW-I for fighting to protect the liberty of the French people. He also talked with chagrin about the pitiful defense, meager resistance, and shameful collaboration when the Germans occupied France in WW-II.

In the end, he was still proud of the individual men he had served with, both in the AFSC and the French Army. At the same time, he felt saddened by what had happened to the French in the years between the wars and after WW-II. He died some 46 years ago and, while I still miss talking with him, in a way I'm glad he's not here to see what has become of France today.

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat"

Reply to
Bill Woodier

I know. Bush Hobbies claimed one would be sent within 45 minutes of receipt of an order. When I asked if he had any in stock, he called me a revisionist and said his buddies would start reading my email. Turned out the catalog was a forgery, anyway. Kim M

Operation American Freedom-Where is our regime change?

Reply to
Royabulgaf

But they both have somethign to do with the posts I was responding to. You ARE aware that conversations wander, yes?

Ad hominem. Impressive.

And what about July 14th *isn't* current affairs?

Reply to
Scott Lowther

Someone who reads quotes from those leaders and people. Admittedly, I must assume the media outlets are quoting accurately.

Since much of it is on simultaneous video tape from multiple sources, I'm guessing there is more than a little accuracy. Of course, I suppose you go back to the tabloid arguement. Or, could argue for a conspiracy of some kind...

My country's Constitution.

When my grandmother visited Paris with a mix of US and Canadians from the WWII generation, she had an "interesting" experience. First, she lost a cousin in the paratroop drops in summer of 1944, so went with sober, but excited spirits. Then, Paris.

When the group went to a bank, the tellers refused to speak Enlish to the, elderly - WWII generation- members. They would speak English to the Canadians in front of the Americans, but not to the Americans. When they tried to speak to a manager, he also refused to speak English.

When my dad was in France in the 60s, helping keep Western Europe free, he did have positive experiences with the rural French population, who still recalled liberation. But, in the cities, quite the opposite.

When my sister and I visited France in the mid-90s, to say that people were unfriendly to us is an understatement.

Regardless of what you think of me via this newsgroup, I am a VERY big believer that guests behave decently (as the saying goes, When in Rome, do as the Romans do). I got nicer treatment when I spoke German. My sister did better more often although she didn't speak often, but she is younger and far prettier than I.

So, that is who I am to make these comments.

I fully appreciate the difference between disliking a "people" and th t people's government. However, when one reads of polls in Europe in which large percentages think "America got what it deserved" on Sept. 11, or that it "was a CIA plot" or other such tripe, I'm afraid I just don't think you are correct.

Reply to
SamVanga

Not anymore. I was largely reading UK web news articles at the time since it was an English cemetary that was defaced. I recall at least one quote in which the official condemned the defacement, but added something to the effect that some people were just so mad that they were driven to extremes. Sounded quite a bit like an excuse to some extent.

Reply to
SamVanga

Well, if you say so. I certainly don't, I meet too many in my job who are quite the opposite.

Reply to
SamVanga

kicking the living with the body of the dead is below contempt..

Reply to
e

If you're after peace in this world you should start showing some respect for other people and their cultures, even if you don't understand them. You guys' grudge against the French has been displayed often enough already, so there is no need to emphasize it once more on a day which is apparently important to the French people. It is just a matter of a some courtesy. For example I don't call you a bunch of retards either when you pull out your flags and ribbons and say your poems and sing your songs when some "Eagle has fallen" , or at any of the other many occasions, do I? Just because there are more of you doesn't mean that your opinions or culture is more valuable that those of others. Stepping back at the right moment and observing a little longer would save the world a lot of unnecessary trouble.

Reply to
Pipo

"Royabulgaf" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m07.aol.com...

;-))

Reply to
Pipo

Julian,

I must have missed something here. I can't see how merely contributing to the (I think you meant to say 'mature') debate amounts to an insult.

If you look at this and earlier threads, you'll notice that I never start any of this shit. You may may also notice that I've taken exception with a few keyboard kommandos here who called the French military cowards because of the actions of their government.

And, FWIW, *I* haven't boycotted any French products. Not since I learned that the French have a hand in the Bushmills distillery, anyway.... ;-)

As far as politics go, they're just being French. Which is no reason why I should do without Grey Poupon, Hi-Tech resin sets or excellent plonk like the the Frenchies flew into Mogadishu to help us celebrate an otherwise depressing

31/12/92 New Year's Eve.

A year later, when our Marines were the speed bumps for Saddam's army massing on the Kuwait border, I missed seeing the French there.

Scott G. Welch Don't tread on me.

Reply to
OSWELCH

I am. But this is different. Your intent from the beginning appears to have been to hijack the thread so you could bitch.

Oh, by no means - I'm not attacking you, I'm just letting the conversation wander. Seemed to work for you, right?

The fact that people were trying to celebrate an important event in French history doesn't constitute an invitation for you to barge in with your provocative statements.

You'd probably be angry if on 7/4 somebody started in on a problem the US is currently facing.

Reply to
Dan

Clearly you haven't actually read the thread. I suggest you go alllll the way back to Bill Banaszak'as comments right after the initial post. The presumed intent was already off course at that point.

Pah. People have been doing that for years. Nothing new here. And it's actually appropriate: if you're going to celerate an event, it's also appropriate to examine related negative effects. Consider a thought experiment: Monogram releases a 1/288 scale model of the Eiffel Tower. It is complete and accurate and very detailed, and reasonably priced. Yay! Worthy of celebration. But it also stinks of cheese, bad wine and unwashed body oder (with just a whiff of urine), and seems to sneer at all your other models. That's worthy of note as well.

Reply to
Scott Lowther

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