Hole Wizard Callouts

Stubs,

C:\SolidWorks\lang\english\calloutformat.txt. I suggest backing it up before changing.

Reaper.

Reaper,

I don't think there is a parameter to give numbered or lettered drill sizes. Only the nominal drill size. I suspect the reason why is implicit below.

Stubs,

Every other machinist on the planet can use a drill size chart. You might let them know that we think you have lazy / incompetent machinists now.

Furthermore, it's bad, possibly incorrect, drawing practice to specify how to make a feature unless there is a special need to specify the process. The drawing should only specify size and tolerance. Specifying the letter size is specifying which tool to use.

I'm all for making life easy for the machinists, but this is going too far. Someone has to look up these brain damaged lettered sizes on a chart, and from what I've seen, it has always bee nthe man at the machine. There is a possibility that I haven't seen it all though.

Stubs,

You putting drill size on the prints is an unnecessary opportunity for error to creep into your process. Also on a 1/4-20 thread a #8, #7 or even 13/64" drills could possibly be used depending upon a few variables in the shop that you have no control over. Then take into account that cut taps and form taps require different hole sizes.

If you are dimensioning cut taps what happens down the road if your company decides to use form taps? What happens if they decide to use form taps on some materials and cut taps on the balance? Don't think it is the machinist who will have to revise all those drawings.

IMO Prints should have dimensions and tolerances for the part and Manufacturing/Machining then decides how best to make it. If they are working with CAM then that program should output the machine tool setup sheet with all the tool information needed. If they can't configure the CAM program to output the drill number/letter/fraction they can always input the information into a note field and output that information in the job setup sheet.

Kudos to you for wanting to be a team player and make life easier for others, however in this one case IMO they may not be looking at the overall picture and it may very well come back to bite you in the ass later on down the road.

Tom

The parameter for the fractional, number or letter size in a Hole Chart/Hole Callout from a Hole Wizard hole is I use it all the time in my hole charts.

From the very bottom of the calloutformat.txt file.......

*Valid Hole Wizard variables are as follows: *VARIABLE DESCRIPTION*

• Type

• Standard

• Fastener Type

• Fastener Size

*

• Counterbore Depth

• Counterbore Diameter

• Counterdrill Angle

• Counterdrill Depth

• Counterdrill Diameter

• Countersink Angle

• Countersink Diameter

• Depth

• Diameter

• Drill Angle

• End Condition

• Far Side Countersink Angle

• Far Side Countersink Diameter

• Head Clearance

• Hole Diameter

• Hole Depth

• Major Diameter

• Middle Countersink Angle

• Middle Countersink Diameter

• Minor Diameter

• Near Side Countersink Angle

• Near Side Countersink Diameter

• Tap Drill Depth

• Tap Drill Diameter

• Thread Angle

• Thread Depth

• Thread Description

• Thread Diameter

• Thread Series

• Thread Size

• Thru Hole Depth

• Thru Hole Diameter

• Thru Tap Drill Depth

• Thru Tap Drill Diameter

*

• Description

Cheers,

Anna Wood

Whoops check that.... I do not put the tap drill size in the hole chart. Our machinists know that info of the top of their head, we don't need to tell them that. Might be offended if we engineering types tried to tell them how to do their job..... :-)

There is a variable in the list below called Tap Drill Diameter which if you want can be added to the calloutformat.txt file to control how your hole callouts are presented in a hole chart or hole callout. It probably only presents the decimal equivelant though.

Cheers,

Anna Wood

Stubs,

I agree with the others. It is not only unnecessary to put the drill size ID. It is actually unnecessary to even state the drill size diameter itself. This is in accordance with a certain interpretation of ASME Y14.5M-1994 which includes the understanding that it is improper to over-specify a part, and improper to define processes on a drawing. Another reason is that if you do over-specify, you limit the machinist choices (as stated before). Even another reason, is that the more information you add the more chance you have at introducing error (typo or mis-info). All you need to callout is the thread itself. In the rare event one finds it necessary to define drill depth, simply add a statement about such without stating drill size.

2X 8-32 UNC-2B DEPTH .165

-OR-

2X DRILL DEPTH .190 8-32 UNC-2B DEPTH .165

-NOT-

2X .190 DIA DEPTH .190 8-32 UNC-2B DEPTH .165 Matt Lorono

All,

Well these are all good reasoned logic and I thank you. I do agree that a good machinist can call up the drill size for a 'standard' tap from memory. I can still do almost 95% and it's been a few years. BUT,

I did inherit this Solidworks setup from the previous engineer so maybe it is setup wrong. The 'default' way this dimensions holes from the hole wizard is::

2x @ .201 dp .750 1/4-20 UNC dp .500

What I've been adding..

2x @ .201(#7) dp .750 1/4-20 UNC dp .500

What I would like:

2x @ .#7 dp .750 1/4-20 UNC dp .500

I was looking for a way to setup Solidworks to do this for me.

Not only does my machinist see this as a specified size for the drill it also closes the tolerance factor to a point where he wonders about reaming.. Seems weird but there it is. I also have had outside vendors question me if ' do all these dimensions have to be three places..?' Guess I'm surrounded by idiots..

I don't mind the drill size being called out, in fact I like to have it on the print. It does let the machinist know what to use and what I want it drilled at.

I work in a small support shop that builds and maintains production machines for a manufacturer. I rarely have to send anything out. If I do most for the time it's to one or two tool and die shops that can and will get down to four place decimal tolerance machining even if I give them a fractional dimensioned drawing on a napkin... Old School Machine Work..

Thanks for the suggestions, will keep looking..

stubs

Studs,

If you are making process drawings for a shop in-house, then I can see why you might wish to add this kind of information. With that said, even on process drawings, it still is bad practice. If you are invoking ASME Y14.5M on your drawing, you are in violation of that standard (oh the horror of it all!). ;) Seriously though, calling this out is a bit like calling out "FORM THIS PART WITH LATHE AWD IN THE CORNER OF THE MACHINE". It's not appropriate.

Each way, I do believe Anna answered your question in-directly. I do not believe SolidWorks has an automatic method to insert the tool information into your callout. Although it does know drill sizes, it doesn't provide them to you in a callout of threaded holes. You could create a macro that does this for you at the end of a drawing preparation. You would need a table, like in excel or csv file as a look up table. And also, you'll need to know how to traverse through the drawing with SelectionManager.

Best of luck!

Matt Lorono

first, a drawing should only show the end reuslt of what you are designing, nothing more. if the shop you are using wants to ut a thread with a titanium toothpick, then so be it. all you should be worried about is that the end result is acurate.

second ASME Y14.5M - 1994 is a guideline. read 1.1 of the manual. it states "This standard establishes practices for stating and interpeting dimensions ..." practices means that you are not forced to do all initiatives in the manual. this is also reviewed by a couple of the people on the subcommittee (Norm Cutler and DR. Don Sheperd) and this is their interpretation also. And it was the first item that they wanted to point out when using this standard in their training sessions.

by the way, if you are interested in formal training, Don Sheperd is an excelent trainer for GD&T and is well worth the cost. you may not totally agree with all he states, but even my group uses most of his concepts in their everyday useage of GD&T. And the machine shops that we simultaniously trained with were impressed with his level of knoledge of GD&T, its application and applying inspection methodology. iQ

You seem to equate precision with slow.. to bad. I'm guessing you have never worked for a government contractor. Not only were the tap hole sizes spec' out but there were plug gauges for before and after the tapping operation.. A good machinist hits the dimension called out on the print. The tolerance is there to allow some fiddle room for fit. Not to allow the machinist to get sloppy..

Studs,

If you are making process drawings for a shop in-house, then I can see why you might wish to add this kind of information. With that said, even on process drawings, it still is bad practice. If you are invoking ASME Y14.5M on your drawing, you are in violation of that standard (oh the horror of it all!). ;) Seriously though, calling this out is a bit like calling out "FORM THIS PART WITH LATHE AWD IN THE CORNER OF THE MACHINE". It's not appropriate.

Each way, I do believe Anna answered your question in-directly. I do not believe SolidWorks has an automatic method to insert the tool information into your callout. Although it does know drill sizes, it doesn't provide them to you in a callout of threaded holes. You could create a macro that does this for you at the end of a drawing preparation. You would need a table, like in excel or csv file as a look up table. And also, you'll need to know how to traverse through the drawing with SelectionManager.

Best of luck!

Matt Lorono

Guess I'm to old and sheltered don't seem to know what ASME Y14.5M is. Will have to look it up and see what I've been doing wrong all these years. Maybe that's why some of the newer guys cuss at me.. Thanks for answering my question. I will have to dig out my old VB books and the SW API info and start coding..

stubs

No, they make drills with 135° spilt points.. :) We have managed to move over to those and two flute gun taps for most of the work. There are two Haas VF3's in the shop but their used on the production parts.. All the maintenance machinist has is one old Bridgeport mill and a Causing lathe.. owners are a bit cheap when to get to replacing stuff that still works.. Of course if we could retrofit the mill we would have to retrain the old guy that runs time.. no thanks there are days when he can out run the CNC's

Sure we still have a few. Like most shops with a clue who want to stay in business we were smart enough to retrofit ours. They probably paid for themselves in six months or less.

for boat anchors. ;>)

Let me guess your "machinists" still spot drill all holes with a tolerance of +/- .005 instead of using a 135° split point screw machine drill.

Jon Banquer San Diego,CA