Hornby info?

There was also "C" scale invented in Europe post war (Sweden?) C stood for Century, 1:100.

Greg Procter wrote: [...]

Nah, he's not. We're Canadians up here, not Americans. You call us Americans, and we'll,, er, we'll. um we'll -- well, I'm not sure what we'll do to you. Probably apologise to you for not correcting your misinformation.

And those people south of the Rio Grande are Mexicanos, not Americans. But their relatives who've migrated to the USA are Latinos. Even when they've become American citizens.

So be careful whom you call what around here, eh?

"It's not that we are better, it's that we're not as worse." (Arrogant Worms)

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Hi Jerry; Yes I was aware of the history behind the Bowser Mountain being 1/8":1' scale. The labeling of it as "E" Scale, I'm only getting faint whispers about. Maybe it's time to start re-reading some of the "Model Railroader" back issues that I've collected over the years.

Something that you may remember seeing, in the '30s (maybe '35 or so) there was a gentleman who had modeled (to HIS satisfaction) in his back yard, using 'condensed milk' cans as wheel sets, angle iron (small/tiny) for rail, a "railroad" that he could push trains around on. The 'condensed milk' can wheels, would make the working scale somewhere in the 1:15 or 1:20 range. Absolutely nothing in the way of 'proper' scenery & structures, but it was a way for him to 'Railroad'. I often think of that MR article when the 'grousing/ nit picking/ etc.' level gets out of hand.

Then there were also HHO (Half HO), HOO (Half OO), OOO (Kind of absorbed by N, TT (.1" : 1') (aka 1:120), and many others over the years. Some even had enough following to generate 'Standard' attempts at NMRA.

The BIGGEST problem for R.M.R is for people to remember that ANYTHING can be 'proper' under the right set of constraints. (Money, Time, Space, Abilities, Information available, etc.)

Chuck Davis

Yeah, I know you avoid the issue for various reasons but I don't need to.

Imagine if the Swiss said "From now on Europe means Switzerland exclusively". Imagine if the Cambodians said "From now on Asia means Cambodia exclusively". Imagine if the Ghanians said "From now on Africa means Ghana exclusively". Imagine if the Columbians said "From now on America means Columbia exclusively". Imagine if the Canadians said "From now on America means Canada exclusively". Imagine if the Australians said "From now on Australia means Australia exclusively". (hold on, that one doesn't work)

Agreed-different strokes for different folks. At the same time, when I read those early issues, I am struck by how intolerant so many of the letter writers were. The "Battle of the Gauges" is the best (worst?) exaple to use. Not only do OO and HO devotees mutually berate each other, but the majority O community is challanged by Q and 17/64 schismatics trying to "correct" the scale:guage ratio question. There must be something very gratifying about being a true believer. People cherish their sense of exclusivity. Present day RTR vs kits. DC vs DCC, tinplate vs "scale" debates are just keeping up an old tradition. Thank you.

Jerry

They work very well indeed. However they take a lot of practise and getting used to! They currently make Mallards and Flying Scotsman (A3) range.

OK, I tried to set you straight politely.

Pay attention to what people want to call themselves, and follow suit. Insisting on your notion of what I should call myself is not only stupid, it's profoundly insulting.

'Ta for that.

Pay attention to who is being insulted by arrogant people/nations calling themselves illogical terms.

Insisting that I use stupid terms just because you insist on being stupid is only adding another layer of stupidity to your resume.

I don't care what you call yourself but don't expect me to insult a billion odd people just because you do.

Regards, Greg.P.

In message , " snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com" writes

I think you are correct, and like to think that we have moved away from 'best' verses the rest. Whilst any discussion on scales and gauges is almost guaranteed to become bogged down in discussions regarding the differences, which may only be a fraction of a millimetre, we do seem to manage to avoid the willy waving 'mine is better than yours' syndrome. Thank goodness :-)

I really do think that one of the best aspects of this hobby is the options available to enthusiasts, from accurate scale models at one end of the spectrum to my own choice, tinplate, where the gauge is constant, but scale is a word we avoid ...

Salvé

Dear All, HO as a scale was invented by A.R.Walkley c 1921, the Bing Table railway a commercial product arrived on the scene in 1923, A.R.Walkley made everything himself on his famous "Railway In A Suitcase" (actually a folding plank.....) he also made the electric motors which powered his engine a Southern M7 ( British Southern Railway!) if I remember correctly. It was then a brilliant example of model making and today would still be seen as above standard. The reason for the enlarging from HO (Half O) to OO was as stated the problem of the British loading guage and the impossibility at the time of getting a commercially reliable and economic electric motor into am HO model the slight enlargement allowed the use of economically viable motors, there was at the time an on going argument re scale -HO, OOor O, also there was the equally ongoing (still ongoing......) discussion of couplers, unfortunately an american put his oar in and won the argument for a time,(Eric Lanal) and the dropping loop coupling was popularised till people stopped using it due tothe loop shifting and uncoupling, the present coupling in use is more or less the same as that invented by Mr Walkley back in 1921 and is reliable and most importantly stops the dreaded buffer lock ( which consistently derails trains) by holding the coaches or wagons sufficiently apart to stop the buffers locking behind each other. The railway in a suitcase had only two turnouts but was fully detailed, it had a hinge in the middle hidden during use by a removable girder bridge and so could be carried to running sessions on buses trams etc, it was if I remember correctly 6 feet long in operation, ít also inspired many people to enter the hobby and its layout is still popular for shunting (Switching) layouts Inglenook sidings being probably the most famous variant, its a British version of the Timesaver type layout though not having seen a plan for Timesaver I dont know exactly how much more or less difficult it is tho I have beeen told the limited shunt lenght of the neck on the Walkley/Inglenook and the fact that there are only two turnouts make it quite difficult. Beowulf

Salvé Oh yes finally there is in Cornwall a narrow guage system at 4 feet guage which exactly corresponds to OO :) I believe Iane Rice models it.Them cornish types...... Beowulf

Greg Procter spake thus:

You really don't know when to stop, do you? (Or, as they say, "quit while you're behind".)

What an idiot. You're not much better than "Curt".

Nobody's being insulted. The insult exists entirely in your patronising fat head.

Ah, yes, Greg Proctor, the arbiter of sense and logic.

As I said, the insult exists entirely in your fevered imagination. Cool off.

Wolf, here's an analogy - If I tell you "don't step in front of the bus" and you argue because you can't see any danger in stepping in front of the bus, I really don't have any obligation to explain the situation further. BUT, when you tell me that I am insulting you by not stepping in front of the bus and further that I am wrong because everyone steps in front of buses then I begin to feel insulted by you.

I'm _not_ going to insult a billion odd people (population of the Americas(?)) to spare the feelings of 300 million. If you can't understand the insult that you give then that is entirely _your_ lack. I have no interest in insulting the people of the USa.

Regards, Greg.P.

I'm not in the argument, I'm a disinterested bystander giving you some useful advice while refusing to join in with your insult. That tends to make _you_ the non-thinking idiot.

If you find my advice insulting then either don't read my advice or try thinking until you understand my point.

Regards, Greg.P.

Guys, guys. Is not the answer to refer to anyone from, say, Mexico up to Alaska as North Americans? That way, no-one is insulted :-)

Graeme spake thus:

Well, yeah; everyone refers to the whole 2 continents as "the Americas", so as usual, Greg has no beef. And not even Hugo Chavez, whose anti-Americanism is well known (and with which I happen to agree), is demanding that the USA change its name.