O Scale Manufacturer Popularity Contest

Dear O Scale Model Train Owners,

I purchased my son (whom is only 2.5 years old and crazy about trains) a Lionel Nickel Plate Road Super Freight set 6-31962 for Christmas. It is our first step together into what I hope will be a fun hobby for us for years to come.

Right out of the box, I had problems with the set. The smoke generator on the caboose is broken. The RealSounds and CrewTalk in the tender are defective. Lionel told me that it would be a 4 week turn around time, but realistically, we all know that could grow to 6 weeks this time of season. I decided to take the defective components to a certified Lionel Service Center about 2 miles from my house. He has to send away for parts, so I'm probably going to be without the train for 2-3 weeks. The shop owner was very nice, but didn't seem at all that enthusiastic about fixing another defective train that was DOA on Christmas. I guess I wouldn't be that happy either if I had to fix that amount of stuff for no compensation other than advertising on the Lionel web sight. I am considering returning the set in favor of one made by someone else like MTH, Atlas, KLine, or any of the others, but before I do, I'd like to get some feedback.

I would like to get some feedback as to who is happy or not happy with the various manufactures of O Scale trains. Please take a few minutes to let me know on or off list of what your experiences were like with the quality of product and services with any or all of the O Scale manufactures.

Thanks.

Peter Rohrman

Reply to
Peter Rohrman
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Reply to
Charles Kimbrough

Charles,

Have you had issues like I have with Lionel? What do you like about the MTH's opposed to the Liones' and other brands? When you say that you have only had one problem unit, how many other units of theirs have you had?

I do plan on making this a hobby for me and my boys. It looks like it will be a lot of fun for us.

Thank You,

Pete Rohrman

Charles Kimbrough wrote:

Reply to
Peter Rohrman

Reply to
Chuck Kimbrough

If you want to have zero problems buy Williams. Williams engines look great and operate smoothly. They are also priced inexpensively. The drawback is no sound/features. Another alternative would be older Weaver. Excellent runners high quality but no sound/features. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport"

Reply to
SAIL LOCO

Dear People,

Lionel is not "O Scale". It is "O Gauge". Scale trains run on 2-rail track, for starters.

I like to see the correct terminology used when describing things.

Thx

Rod

Reply to
Rod Miller

Reply to
Chuck Kimbrough

Lionel engines run the gamete on detail... Engines usually relatively pricey... Engine guts are TMCC, start in forward.... Overall rating of A- for quality

Atlas O engines have superb detail, but are pricey & fine details easily breaks off.. Engines have TMCC guts, engines start in Forward Overall rating of A for quality

MTH (Mikes Train House) is on par with Lionel Engine detail, however they offer the slightly lesser Rail King line too.. There current Engines use/own Proto 2 guts which starts in Neutral.... They offer 3 levels of scale detail... Overall quality rating is A-

K-Line has lower prices & detail range from ok to very nice.. K-Line engines us TMCC & start in forward... They offer a wide variety of 027 type track & many radii. Overall all quality rating is B+ to A- Weaver Engines use TMCC & start in forward... They build mostly detailed engines on the pricey side.. Overall rating is B+ to A-

3rd rail Engines use TMCC guts & start in Forward. They build items, some brass similar to Weaver.. A little on the Pricey side.. Rating B+

Williams builds robust, rugged Engines with lesser detail & few electrical headaches... Units have less features, but will pull a ton also. Units have a simple Fore-Neutral-Rev- Neut elect system.. Excellent low prices for a child beginner. Overall rating B... due to less scale detail.

Note of Caution: On double heading engines... TMCC guts from various MFGers are not geared the same... OR some have cruise control and some TMCC engines do not...

Engines from the same MFGer, diesel to diesel OR Steam to steam will probably double head well..

As far as Cars go, Freight & Passenger, They all couple to each MFGer well too.

Reply to
Dennis Mayer

Dennis,

Thank you for the detailed response. It is just the sort of information that I have been looking for.

It sounds like you have been in the business/hobby for some time. You rated Lionel as an A-. If someone like you gives that high a grade to Lionel, maybe my very bad first encounter with them was a fluke. I hope so. I don't know how long they have had their manufacturing done in China, but is it possible that you are basing the A- grade on their old US production lines? The reason why I ask is because I thought that it was strange that Lionel reported at least a 4 week turn around time for repair. They said that it was their busy season for repair. I'm thinking that the only reason why that would be is because they had shipped a lot of DOA's for Christmas. That leads me to think that if there were many DOA's for Christmas, then quality control for their products is almost nonexistent. When was the last time you purchased a Lionel?

I'm hoping that more people chime in on this thread to give me a better pulse of what the public thinks of all the O gauge manufactures.

Pete

Dennis Mayer wrote:

Reply to
Peter Rohrman

Chuck and Rod,

For clarity sake, I would like to use the correct terminology. I think what you are getting at is that gauge is the measurement/classification of the distance between the rails, and that scale refers to how close the measurements of a unit mimic in proportion the real live unit? Right?

If that is correct, then I should have made the subject line "O Gauge Manufacturer Popularity Contest" instead of "O Scale ..."

Pete

Chuck Kimbrough wrote:

Reply to
Peter Rohrman

Going on 10 years (not counting 1955 thru 1962), Reading about trains daily..

You

I have minor & few major problems with most all new RR MFGers products.... Dealing with/using the Engine Computerization Complexity is 'Learning'... I'm talking about the 'High End' Lionel offerings compared to the other Competitors as A-: Detail, Features, Variety of Products, & Road Names.... During the last 9 years offerings have expanded BIG time.... Moving to China has 'communication' risks, testing risks, and Get the Product out the door on time to Make some Money.....

The reason why I ask is because I thought that it

I think your 'slow' 4 week turn a round REASON on Repair is off base.... The busy season for Lionel & all MFGers is Christmas since many of the 'stored at home' Trains come out of the Wood Work for 4 weeks...

Guys like me who live & breathe (run) Train daily, send in or let dealers work on 'Sick' engines & lights & batteries year round.... Many existing trains need help over Christmas months only!!

That leads me to think that if

Good Question.. I buy 4 MTH'S for each Lionel Engine purchased.... Last 3 Lionel Engines for me: D&RGrande GP-30 2-17-03 Serious Head Light Problems, 3/4 fixed by dealer

D&RGrande SD-40T 9-25-03 No Problems yet, but Can't knock it out of Cruise!

WPacific F-3B dummy 11-04-03 Non locking electrocoupler, I fixed it...

I have very recently bought Weaver & 3rd Rail brass O Gauge... And a lot of MTH Premier engines... Both Power & Dummy. Since big units have so much Power, MTH dummys & Lionel Dummies can be doubled headed with any Brand engine...

I have enough Engines that If one breaks... I have 2 or 3 compatible spares available, short term to replace it....

I have access to(memb of) Two local Train Clubs to get stuff fixed fast & cheap..... If it's a simple job.. Dealer, if Fast, is 2nd choice, Mfger Fix #3. Warranty work fix is free from MFGer, & sometimes Dealer...

Reply to
Dennis Mayer

I consider 0 Scale to be Two Rail DC at 1/48 Scale

I consider 0 Gauge to be 3 Rail AC at or Approx 1/48 scale.

Reply to
Dennis Mayer

Think about what you are saying. The reason that it's their busy time is that tons of idiots get their trains out of the attic at the last minute for Christmas and find out they may not be performing up to snuff so they send them off to be repaired. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport"

Reply to
SAIL LOCO

get their trains

they may not be

You also have the other 'ton of people', those who just purchased a set to run around the Christmas tree and didn't bother to read the instructions before 'firing it up'. The result is an overwhelming number of calls to the Lionel Service Center, and local Authorized Service Centers, along the lines of :

"The whistle doesn't blow.", or, "The bell rings when I push the whistle/horn button and the whistle blows when I push the bell button." (Track power feed wires reversed from where the instructions say to put them.)

"The smoke unit worked for a minute or so, and now it's stopped smoking and smells terrible." (Didn't add any smoke fluid and didn't turn the smoke unit off per the instructions if you don't add fluid. Invariably leads to the question, "This is covered by the warranty right?")

"I plugged the transformer in and the train took off at top speed. The transformer must be broken because the speed control doesn't do anything." (Track power leads connected to the fixed voltage accessory outputs.)

Etc., etc., etc., eating up hours of technician time that should have gone into fixing trains that are actually broken.

Speaking of which, there does seem to be a problem with the new O27 Thomas not reversing properly. The short term solution is to wire a 12V - 16V light bulb across the track power outputs. Even a 12V grain-of-wheat bulb seems to work. I haven't heard what the long term solution will be yet.

Also, Peter's comment, "I guess wouldn't be that happy either if I had to fix that amount of stuff for no compensation other than advertising on the Lionel web sight." is incorrect. Authorized Service Centers do receive credit from Lionel for time and parts used on warranty repairs.

Reply to
Len

Len,

I guess that either the owner of the Lionel Service Center that I brought my train to is either lying, or he doesn't know to submit time sheets for time spend on warranty repairs.

Where is the KL&B Eastern Lines RR Museum? Would it be a place that my sons would like to visit?

Pete

Reply to
Peter Rohrman

FYI: I am one of those people that picked up a set for Christmas, but did read the manual from cover to cover before I set it up. I followed all the directions when it came to the smoke generators, and still got a lemon caboose that was DOA for Christmas. I don't think I did anything to cause the sound to crackle in and out.

Pete

Reply to
Peter Rohrman

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Pete,

Maybe he was thinking that because Lionel doesn't send out checks, you get credit to your account with Lionel, for warranty work he wasn't being compensated. Or he may have been thinking of MTH, which has a two tier Service Center program.

MTH has ASC's, which are not compensated for warranty work so they have the choice of accepting warranty work as a 'value added' for the retailer they're located with. And they have National ASC's (NASC's) that are compensated, similar to Lionel Service Centers, which have to take warranty work.

Or like you said, maybe he's never figured out how to submit the Warranty Repair form to Lionel.

As for the KL&B Eastern Lines RR Museum...That's my HO layout, which is currently stacked in a pile of boxes waiting for me to get a room cleared out in my new house. I went with the Railroad Museum idea to stop the strange looks I'd get pulling a string of New Haven coaches with a PRR GG1. And being the flexible fellow I am, I define "Eastern" as anything East of the Continental Divide.

Len Head Rust Scraper The KL&B Eastern Lines RR Museum

Reply to
Len

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Pete,

I was only pointing out part of the reason for longer turnaround times, and delays in getting the phones answered by Lionel Customer Service, around Christmas time. I wasn't trying to imply you hadn't read the directions. Just that there are a lot of folks who don't, and they put a major strain on the folks at Lionel, and the Authorized Service Centers, during that time of year.

And while it's not common, I have seen things that for one reason or another were "DOA" out of the box from almost every manufacturer. But they have all tried to get the matter resolved as quickly as possible with the resources available at the time. Unfortunately, the Christmas season stretches resources pretty thin.

Len

Reply to
Len

in article snipped-for-privacy@execpc.com, Dennis Mayer at snipped-for-privacy@execpc.com wrote on 12/31/04 17:25:

"O Gauge." "O Scale."

Oh, hell...to remedy the confusion, I propose a new word...

O Scage

Dieter Zakas

Reply to
Dieter Zakas

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