Lister CS hybrid, parts needed

I can't pictur this seized bearing situation properly. Any chance of a pic?

Before seeing it, maybe a combination of loads of PlusGas or similar, gentle heating, & tapping back & to along the shaft?

Re your dodgy journal, last resort, involves money, would be metal spraying. Some say don't do it, but it's been done often enough.

Cheers Tim

Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service

Tim,

You would be surprised how many aircraft engine parts are reconditioned using metal spraying, so it cant be that bad.

Mart> >

Patience is the key, the methods you suggest will simply cause distortion and having a new one made will not be cheap at all! Unless it seized in use it will just be a very thin film of rust/s***. Cobble a dam round it and fill with diesel or shove the whole thing in a bucket of diesel. Leave it for a few weeks/months applying gentle heat (preferably from a hot air gun) from time to time. The engine I've just got running again (8hp Petter S) had stood, unsheeted, in a garden for 15 years. It had been full of water and everything was rusty. The piston took a week to free, the mains a week, the pump 3 days, the governer assembly three weeks and the rings as long. It had to have a liner because of the loss of metal and a BE regrind because some dolt had soldered P-B shim into the big end but everything else cleaned up and is working fine. (Apart from the wretched sprayer nozzle :-( If the main flange is a little way off the thrust face you could try sliding a well fitting and clean/square ended thickwall-tube over the crank and giving it a frim but gentle tap as part of the process. Even a few thou will help the diesel to percolate. hth Roland

Thanks guys, Tim, this is my bearing problem, I tried gentle heat and WD-40 followed by rubber boa wrench twanging... Guess I lack patience, will try to soak and heat the bearing over time and see what gives.

Joules

Time, heat and penetration are the keys. This bush will come off, you'll just have to be patient!

Use a big flame like a blowlamp & get the whole thing hot - don't overdo it, you don't want to denature bush or journal - then add penetrating oil of your choice. Many say Diesel & certainly it does work although personally, my preference is Plus Gas & it smells so much better. I've had a lot of success over the years getting stuck rings out of pistons without breaking them, including a Villiers two stroke that dates to pre First War that had been at the bottom of a rusty pile of engines in a barn since 1921.

If it was me, I'd be inclined to drill a shallow hole through the bush part way along its length, just dimpling the shaft. This will give another oiling point on the bearing surface so you are not expecting it all to work in from the ends.

Repeated light percussion on the bearing will help, too. Light blows from a big hammer are better than heavy blows from a light hammer. Don't overdo it!

Repeated cycles of heat & penetrating medium, allowing soaking time in between WILL get the damn thing off, but you must expect it to take a while. After all, it didn't *get* stuck in a day or two, did it?

Reboring the cylinder should pose no problems, but if the reboring man fights shy of it, a coarse hone will soon see the chrome off, it isn't thick in all conscience.

Would this be away of changing it from a 3/1 to a bigger capacity? I dunno, just askin'.

Regards,

J. Kim Siddorn, Regia Anglorum

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Here's a pic of me, at work. If you happen to bump into me on the rally field, give me a nudge, and say hello. Hope you like the title of this photo. As usual abuse and insults welcome....

Joules

Time waits for no man with a Thor hammer. I got the bearing off, unexpectantly. I was trying to drift the other bearing out by hammering the bearing plate onto the seized bearing to push it out. That worked and as I tapped the end plate off it pulled the seized bearing a few mm. Did it all again after putting some shim in the bearing to stop it sliding back, and this time it pulled the bearing clean off the shaft.

Now with two bearings in one end plate, I managed to knock them both out with timber blocks. The seized bearing does have some gauling in it. It turned out the anti-rotation pin had sheared, and this bearing sleeve had been spinning in the bearing plate (for some time), gradually grinding the sheared pin into a nice abrasive clump. Not sure if the bearing or bearing plate will need replacing, I do need to clean the shaft up to get it smooth again. The Garyflex blocks do a great job at this, and I can recommend people to try hand scrapeing, does a beaut job of smoothing things off if you take it steady, and the tools are so cheap.

Joules

Here's a bunch more shots. First off I can't for the life of me figure why someone would want to punch a load of dimples into the crankshaft, through the oil hole??? but they did...

After getting the bushes off I could inspect them and clean them up, they both seem to have similar wear patterns so should be OK, however, if you look at the outside you can see the slightly blacken bearing, this is the one that has been spinning on the shaft. It looks OK, but is a loose fit in the bearing plate. I need to work out if the bearing plate has worn, or the bearing.

Now that's out the way I turned my attention to the getting the crankshaft journal smoothed. I learnt to scrape a few years ago, whilst fixing an old milling machine, since I got the tools and not much to loose I figured to give it a go. The first picture shows the results. It's sort of like shaving your spotty face, the edge takes the peaks off whilst only removing microns form the smooth surface, in this case it probably excavated a bit as well.

Note the very fine powdered metal at the ends of the area scrapped, once the bearing is re-assembled and run, it should bed these areas in.

Final picture is of the crankshaft and tool I used, it's well worth practising with some old cast iron and engineers blue. I will be treating all the machined surfaces eventually.

Thanks again to everyone that has emailed with help, or just shown interest in what I am doing.

Joules

Here's a bunch more pictures. First off I can't for the life of me figure why someone would punch a load of dimples into the crankshaft through the oil hole in the bush, but they did ???

Having got the bushes off and inspected, they both show similar wear patterns and still a good fit, so hopefully can be re-used. My only concern is the slightly blackened bush, is the one that was seized and spinning in the bearing plate. I think maybe the bearing plate is worn as it's still a good fit in the other plate. Paper shim could be in use here.

Having sorted the bushes out, it's time to clean up the damage on the crankshaft. I figured since I learned to scrape a few years ago, I might as well apply it here. First photo shows the result on the big end journal. You can see by the powered metal at the ends, it only takes off minute quantities of metal from the smooth surface, but will pull the tops off the peaks in the damaged areas. A bit like shaving a zitty face...

The next photo shows the tool I used. You only have to draw it over the surface with light pressure. Normally you apply engineers blue, but in this case I used the oily crude. I will apply this to all teh machine surfaces as I get round to them, maybe overkill, but it keeps my hand in.

Finally, a big thanks to everyone that has responded by email offers of help, or just nice things about the project as it goes. Hopefully those that learn from my mistakes can share what they learn with others. This is my first engine project, and things before this were model projects no bigger than your hand. So it's new to me too, please enjoy the journey.

Joules

Finally some reward on the hours put in so far crankshaft and piston rod rejoin in a happy and close union. Thanks to Lidl for the cheap axle stands.

Hopefully I can wrap this part up and store it for later, as parts get finished they are cleaned, Waxol'd and wrapped in sandwich bags, then put into a plastic crate... I'm calling it the "Lister Lunch Box"

Joules 8-)

Just don't take it to work!

Brian L Dominic

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of the Cromford Canal: Light Railway: Newsgroup readers should note that the reply-to address is NOT read: To email me, please send to brian(dot)dominic(at)tiscali(dot)co(dot)uk

Guys, after much thought and weighing up of pro's and cons, I have decided to try and build the engine as the original 3/1. My logic goes something like this...

The crankshaft and bearings are my main concern, so figure if I use what I got, the smaller cylinder will put less strain on these components. The amount of parts needed for the 5/1 hybrid make picking up a complete

5/1 a more viable option, but not at the moment. I have been offered parts, and hopefully the other bits I need, I can come by. The brass engine plaque is complete and in good condition, so should make it a viable and traceable show engine at some point!!!

Anyone spot any faults in my logic, glaring omissions, or some secret components that could require body parts/soul in payment. I'm hoping that piston rings are also not too hard to come by. Gaskets are also on my mind, choices being, make or buy UK/Indian supplies ???

Joules, the oily one

Just being nosey, you understand but what - if anything - are you going to do about the bore? For myself, it would be the only thing I'd worry about as the flaking chrome will continue to flake as sure as eggs is eggs.

At least there is no pumped lubrication to send the diamond hard little particles around the engine!

Regards,

J. Kim Siddorn,

Kim, the liner is scrap, am hoping to get another head and liner to replace.

Joules