Before decamping to Canada for good, Roy Sparks was kind enough to ring and tell me he had looked up the number of my Norman T300 and found the original customer was The Ice-Cream Co Ltd. which equipped ice cream vans. He went on to say that this was not a very successful application as the engines were run on propane (why?) which caused premature failure.
I had a quick browse on google Re. ice cream van history and found that Bryan Whitby of Whitby Morrison developed the direct drive system (from the vehicle engine) in 1962, making a separate power source for the refrigerator and churn uneccesary. So presumably Norman and any other contenders were not troubled by that particular market for very long.
Various engines were tried by the manufacturers of ice cream vehicles, including Picador in Southampton (not connected with the pulley people) including the Onan AJ single and the little flat twin Velocette, which I had drawings of back in the days before I got married... The Reliant car engine (side valve) was another contender.
There was also an Onan CCK powered three-phase generator and Taylor ice-cream machine package from the States which was heavy but worked OK.
The reason they were run on propane was allegedly becuase of the lower running costs of propane. Tonibell for one had bulk LPG tanks at most depots and the cost of a fill was much less than the equivalent costs of petrol.
The downside was that the propane fuelled engines had a lot of valve and ring problems, and high oil consumption, plus there were problems refuelling if you ran out on a busy weekend at a local beauty spot(!) so eventually a lot of them were converted back to petrol running.
Later (1969-ish) there came about a series of direct-drive conversions using the vehicle engine and a drive shaft back to the machine in the back. It worked OK with most of the vehicles at that time (Bedford CA and then CF) and the separate engines died out.
The engines powered the Borg-Warner compressor and the ice-cream machine, the fan for the condenser was powered from the vehicle electrics as were the electric clutches on the drives, one for the compressor and one for the machine itself, most of which were Carpigiani from Italy.
Peter
-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk
No, they were always petrol in those days, the Bedford CA had the option of a Perkins 4-99 or 4-108 diesel but it was pretty gutless. The Mr Whippy vans had a
4-cylinder Austin or Morris engine AFAIR to drive their generators, but they were a bigger van altogether than the Bedford CA.
Diesels in any form didn't really take on until the Bedford CF. We had a couple of diesels in the Tonibell fleet, but they teneded to be privately owned.
Peter
-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:
PA> No, they were always petrol in those days, the Bedford CA had the PA> option of a Perkins 4-99 or 4-108 diesel but it was pretty gutless. PA> The Mr Whippy vans had a PA> 4-cylinder Austin or Morris engine AFAIR to drive their generators, PA> but they were a bigger van altogether than the Bedford CA.
PA> Diesels in any form didn't really take on until the Bedford CF. We had PA> a couple of diesels in the Tonibell fleet, but they teneded to be PA> privately owned.
Probably no such thing as autogas (ie lpg with duty added) in those days. But I would imagine it must have taken the availability of diesel base vehicles to make sitting for hours on end with the main engine at idle a viable proposition.
nickh=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
I can't remember the deal, it was Calor Gas who supplied the bulk tanker, and the tank itself was 6ft diameter and about 12ft long, so quite a large capacity.
It was also horribly dangerous, with an overflow valve to leave open while filling, and the plume of white gas vapour indicating that the tank was full.
We did have one guy who smoked while filling one day....
I had already worked on LPG conversions while at W C Youngman in their fork-truck division, and it was already well established for indoor use, we had a regular job converting Saxby (France) fork trucks onto gas, they has a Peugot
403 petrol 4-cylinder engine. Still have one of the new fuel pumps we took off downstairs, had that since the 1960's!
I don't think tax on the gas as a fuel was thought of then, as so few made the jump.
Peter
-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:
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