LMS loco liveries

I'm sure there are people more knowledgable than me in this matter, but in case nobody else responds, I think the answer is that everything was black apart from express passenger locos - pacifics, Royal Scots, Jubilees, Patriots and (at least in the early 30's) Claughtons.

Andy

In very simple terms (and I stress, simple) the LMS liveries were basically:

plain, unlined black - freight locomotives. black, lined - mixed traffic locomotives. maroon/crimson - express passenger locomotives. One exception to the latter was amongst the early, streamlined, "Coronation" pacifics, some were in maroon/crimson with gold banding while others were in a light blue with silver banding.

If you can get hold of a copy of "Locomotive Liveries of the LMS" by David Jenkinson, originally published by Ian Allan/roundhouse Books in 1967, this will answer all your queries. Try your local library, the book has been out of print for many years, but it does contain dozens of accurate photographs, drawings of lining and lettering styles and colour samples.

Hope this helps,

David Costigan

And the MR 4-4-0 tender engines, class 2P (p = passenger)

Only the express passenger ones Mike, so Compounds and '999's. 2P and suburbab tanks went to lined black. Dont forget however, its engines that were built or repainted (during overhaul approx every 8 years) from 1930 onwards. So there could still be a lot in LMS crimson up to 1937-8.

Simon

Thanks for that - I had read somewhere that the 2ps remained crimson right up to their withdrawal, evidently not so.

Regards

Mike

Errr sorry - Maroon

I always get these years slightly wrong, according to Essery and jenkinson illustrated history LMS locos... "Following 1927/1928 livery change, lined black was universal treatment.." (for 2p's) So crimson only till 1935 ish.

Cheers, Simon

Err no - Crimson Lake.

"Andy Kirkham" wrote

There were many more classes which carried red, including Midland Compounds and some of the LNWR 4-4-0s too.

John.

Up to circa 1950 there were a few ex-LMS era Standard Compound 4-4-0s running through Earlestown, on the Manchester - North Wales trains, with just their cab sides and the 'M' of LMS wiped clean to reveal that their pre-war Crimson Lake paint was still extant.