So I've set my sights on a 120v MIG setup- and have begun reading. [Miller, Hobart or Lincoln's 140amp units all seem equivalent to me- I'm just looking for a sale- new or used. My mind is still open if anyone feels the need to steer me in one direction or another.]
The first in depth reading I'm doing is Lincoln's pdf file
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"GMAW Welding Guide"
On page 2 they've got me confused.
PDF> Limitations of GMAW PDF> ? The lower heat input characteristic of the short-circuiting PDF> mode of metal transfer restricts its use to thin materials. PDF> ? The higher heat input axial spray transfer generally PDF> restricts its use to thicker base materials.
Is this just a matter of what is 'thin' or 'thick' or does "base" mean more than I understand? In practical use, what does that mean to the average homeowner/casual user?
PDF> ? The higher heat input mode of axial spray is restricted to flat PDF> or horizontal welding positions.
Under advantages they say "? All-position welding capability." What am I missing there?
The ability to put two and two together when reading marketing-speak. What it says without saying it outright is that you can weld all position on thin stuff, but not on thick stuff. Base is the metal you are welding.
You may glaze over, but try downloading the actual manuals for the welders you are considering - more likely to have actual thickness guidelines for what "thick" vs "thin" means in various materials for that particular welder. It will vary somewhat with wire diameter, but a home/casual weldor is not likely going to use lots of different wire sizes, simply from a cost point of view.
The average homeowner/casual weldor frankly does a horrible job, as often as not - one hopes that the stuff they are welding is not placed in an environment where its failure will hurt anyone. MIG is "easy", MIG is clean, and MIG is the greatest way on earth to make a beautiful weld bead that's not actually stuck to anything much, if you're not careful. A lot of folks manage to not even get the beautiful bead - the metallic equivalent of stick some hot glue on it and call it a day.
Do yourself a favor and weld up, then break, a bunch of samples - test - trial pieces when you get your machine - and if you don't use it for a while, do that again before you weld anything that matters.
Hobbyist at home - sweep aside all talk about spray transfer. You need industrial 3-phase power supply to break into that regime - and a big industrial-sized MIG machine. You can break into spray at over
200A. 240A gives nniicccceeee stable spray with std Ar/CO2 shielding gas. These are at half as much arc voltage again as dip (typically
33V spray vs. 22V dip).
Power - well, P = V * I. Taking 240A, 33V P=33*240=7920W That is 8kW! That's just the arc! With machine efficiency, you'd be drawing half as much again (???) off the 3-phase supply!!!
Your small welding machines simply won't push that voltage even if they could come near the amps.
I believe no MIG machine up to 200A is designed with any thought of spray (???). You are solidly in the land of dip transfer.
BTW - in spray you want a torch with a long "gooseneck" to space your hand a distance away from the arc so you don't incinerate your hand and burn your gauntlets with the heat radiation. It looks very Tom-and-Jerry-like trying to pull an already red-burned, set-to-fluid-blister hand out of a hardened smoking destroyed gauntlet.
You can positionally weld (vertical, horizontal "across the wall", etc) on any thickness of plate with MIG - it's just that you have to multi-run it at low power in dip when you need a big bead to match thick plate. About 100A max is good going vert-up T-fillet. Look up "the Christmas tree" weave pattern.
I do that. Well, not so much break a bunch of stuff, but burn a few inches to get my welder dialed in and get my "feel" back for the rig.
As a "home" hobby welder (I do fabricate a few brackets and mounts for my contracting business too) I agree with your statemnt that we often do poor work. However, I've got just enough experience now to see that quite often it was the first part listed above pair with low price consumer grade equipment.
I used to hate my Lincoln cracker box stick welder. Just when I would start to get it going right and getting good deep smooth welds and start thinking I had it done, my welds would start to suffer.
When I got my little wire feed I played with it a bit, and found I could get in the groove faster and burn better right away, but whenever I was welding more than a small bit my welds would start to suffer again.
Finally I realized that, yes you have to burn an inch or two to get things just right, but the real limitation was my equipment. Low price equipment has a low duty cycle. When it starts to get hot it quits doing a good job. The wire feed was the first one I figured this out on because it has a very short duty cycle. The thermal protector made it a little harder to figure out though because it kicks off shortly after the welder starts to do a poor job. I finally realized it was the welder when I realized if I sat there and waited for the thermal protector to kick back on it would still weld poorly, but if I went inside and had a soda or a snack and came back it would give me a couple inches of good weld. Longer amount of time to cool down.
I didn't really realize my cracker box was the same way until I had to extend some pieces of 6" well casing we were using as bollards around a new shop building.
I had not used the cracker box in years, but I figured that I could weld them faster with the heavier rod vs thin wire in my wire feed. I also thought that you could just run the cracker box forever, so while I didn't think I would get as nice of welds I did think I would get the job done faster.
I was right and I was wrong, and I was suprised.
I was surprised when I found I hit my groove a lot faster for laying down a nice beed than I remembered. I guess all those years of laying down UBS welds one way or another did help a little. LOL.
I was right that the job went a lot faster.
I was wrong that I could weld forever.
I found that I could weld about half way around the casing nicely. Then I needed to stop and let the welder cool down for half an hour to get it to really weld good again.
All that is a round about way of saying I think the poor quality welds you see by us home/hobby welders is as much a result of inadequate equipment or equipment that is pushed to its limits as it from lack of experience and training.
Of course as little as I weld it took me many years of experience to realize that. LOL.
-- Bob La Londe The guy who decides who we do business with.
The Security Consultant PO Box 5720 Yuma, Az 85366
Check the owners manual of the machine. "Thin" in layman's terms generally means "car panels"
Don't worry about this, this is for the 'big boys' with their 'big toys'
All positions... One minute your sitting at your bench welding something, welding it from above. Next you're running a horizontal along a vertical surface. Then you run a vertical bead up a vertical surface. Next you're lying under your car welding a hole above you. I think that should sum it up nicely for you :)
Let me make it easy for you. If you are going to buy Lincoln, *only* buy one with a model number that starts with SP. For the 117V machines, that's either SP135T, SP135+, SP140T, SP140+. No "weld pak", no "pro mig". For Miller, just buy a little Millermatic.
Thing is, Lincoln has bought and continues to manufacture Century welders but now they're branded as Lincoln. But they're still el cheapos and don't work well. The SP welders are "real Lincoln" and they work great.
No, I did not. I said this, which is quite different.
|| The average homeowner/casual weldor frankly does a horrible job, as || often as not
Note "average" and "as often as not". Some hobby weldors do fine work, but a great deal do not.
I'd second the suggestion to find a course if possible, and a competent buddy if not - but it's hard to pick the competent buddy if you have little to judge by.
Steve is absolutely right about one thing - there are three types of metal transfer. Beyond that, he is a bit confused. Let's set the record straight.
Lowest wire speed is "short circuit mode" - like frying bacon. Turn it up and eventually the wire won't make it all the way to the puddle before the ionization potential pulls off a big glob. This is globular transfer. Sounds like "pffuh .. pffuh .." and the first time it happens to you with a home MIG machine you will think there is something wrong with your tip. Just turn it down.
The above two are all you will likely ever experience unless you are using very heavy equipment.
At wire speeds above globular transfer is spray. It's nearly silent compared to the other two. The wire just turns to metal vapor and flows in a smooth ribbon. It's very desirable but you really need a big machine with a gun capable of taking a lot of heat.
The other thing to know about small MIGs is the difference between wires. You can use solid wire (GMAW) or tubular "flux-cored" wire (FCAW) but the polarity of your welder needs to be reversed when you switch between the two. RTFM.
For all wirefeed welding, run as hot as you can without blowing holes in things. Running cold makes welds that look pretty but fall apart. Google this group on Gunner and "spare tire" for a real-world example. Funny to read about, but can be damn serious if it happens to you.
Buy Lincoln or Miller. Good service, warranty, and consumables.
I have read the other posts, so this is a compilation of answers to your questions and their answers.
Your power setting has a lot to do with the weld you will produce. That's how much heat you will put into the weld. Think of it as the difference between an arc of a 110 wire that you short circuit and a 220v. The 220 makes a bigger hotter spark.
The next thing is wire speed. There are three types of transfer patterns. I shall try to explain these in simple terms, but they all can get complicated from here. When you do get the welder, experiment with them all so seeing this will deepen your understanding of what's happening in that bright area.
Globular transfer - when wire speed is slow, and the wire melts and forms molten bbs, and then one of those bbs is transferred to the metal. You can turn the speed so slow that you can actually see this happening.
Spray transfer - when the speed is right, and the "frying bacon" sound of when the arc is even between the tip of the wire and the work.
High wire speed - you can use this when you want to put a lot of metal into a weld. You can turn up the wire speed so high that you will feel the wire pushing your hand away from the puddle. Not useful in many situations, but this is a simple explanation.
One thing that has not been mentioned a lot is spot welding. This technique is very useful when welding thin metal. It is a timing thing. Put a spot and stop. When the spot cools to a certain point somewhere between yellow and no color, move the wire tip a bit and spot again. I use this on ornamental metal where the weld will be exposed, and I don't want to grind it off. Once you get the hang of it, you can make your MIG welds look like TIG. It's not great strength wise, but plenty strong for ornamental metal and sheet metal work. Serial spotting is also very good for sheet metal to keep down distortion, as in replacing car sheet metal components. Also very good to know so you can drill a hole in one piece of the sheet metal, join the two pieces, then put a plug weld in the hole. Makes a nice strong joint with a hot spot weld.
What you need mostly is a guy like me who lives close to you. I could come over and show you in a day what it would take a month of trial and error and a lot of materials for you to learn on your own. Try to find someone like that.
Someone has said that hobby welders can only do horrible welds. I don't agree with that. It's like playing a guitar. Some people have the talent, and that will come out after a short time. You can do GOOD welds in a short time if you stick with it and learn it yourself, have someone who knows how to show you, or sign up for a course at a local community college. The best $200 you'll ever spend.
The size machine you are considering buying is great for thin metal. I would suggest that you buy a 220v. machine, but that's me. You may not have the power to do this, or for what you want to do, 110 might do it. You may, though, outgrow the machine if you start to do any heavier work. Just a thought. I have the Lincoln 175SP+ and love it. It's just a bit more. If you do need a heavier machine, you'll be out there again soon spending ANOTHER $$$$ for a 220v. machine.
Have fun, and be careful. Welding is highly addictive.
Nah. It's really easy. I used to do it for people who were applying for jobs. I'd ask if they could weld. "SURE" was the common answer. I'd take them to the shop, twist all the dials on the machine, and tell them to weld these pieces together. Then I would leave. The welders would weld. The others came back with a complaint about something being wrong with the machine. You can pick the competent from the incompetent in less than a minute under a welding hood. Just look at the results of a few minutes of welds.
There are three modes that a MIG welder can operate in. The lowest power is short circuit. The wire feeds out until it contacts the metal being welded. That is a short circuit. The wire melts and burns back until the arc extingushes. You get a sound like frying bacon as the wire shorts and arcs, then shorts and arcs again.
If you increase the power you can get to a point where the arc does not extinguish. The arc melts the wire and forms a glob of molten metal. The glob transfers to the metal being welded, and soon another glob is formed and transfered.
Increasing the power some more and the wire melts into small particles which spray across to the metal being welded. There is very little sound when in spray mode. This generally takes more power than a small MIG welder can supply. However there are some wires that are called " dual shield ". These wires depend on the gas to shield the weld, but also have some flux in the middle of the wire. Some of the dual shield wires will do spray mode with a small 240 volt MIG welder. With the higher power the puddle tends to be harder to control, so you may not be able to weld overhead or vertical.
With all three modes you need to watch the puddle. That is how you can tell if enough of the base metal is being melted so that the added metal is forming a good bond.
FInd some place that is teaching welding. And if you feel the cost is too much, ask if you can observe a couple of days. They will probably let you do that hoping that you will then sign up for the course. You will learn a lot by just watching. And of course even more if you take the course. I would do this before you buy the welder. I lucked out and was able to take welding at the Votec School during the summer when I was in high school for free.
If you buy a Miller or Lincoln, you can't go wrong. Each will have a chart permanently attached inside the door. Get some metal. Consult the chart. Set the dials for the metal thickness. Make sure the gas is on. If you have average intelligence, I'd say you'll be making nice welds within the week. If you have more than average intelligence, the time will be less. Start in the flat position, as that is the easiest. Send to Miller or Lincoln for some basic instruction books.
I would also suggest that you buy a machine that has "infinite" control on the power. That's like a radio dial that spins around, and doesn't go in clicks between heat settings. Much better control of the weld, particularly with a lot of the 220 machines.
The grand or so it is going to cost you to get started is a bit of money to anyone. Machine, gas, hood, consumables, etc. BTW, start of with CO2, as it is much cheaper than mixed gas.
But if you know that you can use a welder a good bit, just do it. You can talk about it and watch, but there's nothing like doing it. And MIG welding is I think the easiest welding to get good at. I think a monkey could MIG weld as well as some of the welders I've seen. And MIG is one of the most practical and useful welders for lots of repairs and fabrication. If you start to do a lot of welding, you can always get a stick, and a decent used one for about half of what a new MIG will cost.
Another good thing about a MIG is that you can make money by doing repairs and fab jobs. You'll be surprised how many new friends you'll make when they find out you have a welder. Kind of like getting paid as you learn. Fix your own stuff that needs fixing. Or just build stuff for your own self to learn on. A new gate. A firewood rack. A garbage can rack. Artsy fartsy yard art. Lots of stuff. You can get lots of cheap or free metal. I get rims at the tire shops. I use them for bases for various projects, or as a bulletproof hose rack. Steel suppliers sell their remnants and cut off pieces very cheaply, so you don't have to even buy a saw to get metal to practice on.
I was trying to make a simple explanation, and included that the OP should try varying the speed so that he would understand more about what was happening in the puddle. From there, one can get as complex as one wants to. Was just attempting to give the basics, and perhaps failed at that.
Thanks for the explanation. I've been welding a long time, and did not know that. Have seen those machines at the Home Depot, and wondered if Lincoln was compromising on quality to meet the mass market. The prices at HD are definitely lower, but the goods are not the same.
Where to begin? Thanks to all for comments- at this stage of the game *anything* might be an epiphany for me.
I'm go>You may glaze over, but try downloading the actual manuals for the
Sounded like a great idea- but Lincoln's manuals for the 140 welders don't say. Fortunately they do mention it in a brochure on their site- They have a chart there with recommended wire types & sizes for
20ga to 5/16 steel. [and mention that 5/16 needs to be done in 2 passes]
The manual pointed out that welding aluminum calls for an accessory gun- so that's a $100 surprise I get to figure into the grand scheme.
-snip-
I appreciate your harping on the safety aspect-- It's probably hard for the folks who already know to remember how 'we who haven't seen things fail' might place too much faith in a weld that 'looks good'.
It is >Hobbyist at home - sweep aside all talk about spray transfer.
Thanks- good to be reminded that my interest is not just limited to MIG for now- but also limited to 120v MIG.
-snip-
That took more googling than I expected- But I found a description and illustration here-
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that was the first it occurred to me that there was more to it than just pushing the gun along at the right setting and speed.
Balders wrote:
Perfect- thanks. >Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Guess that leads me to my next question- I was actually just wondering why Home Depot, Sears, and Lowes all sell the same(?) Lincolns with different names. So where do I go to buy a real Lincoln? I see lots of places online, but it would probably behoove me to start a relationship with a brick&mortar store even if it cost me a few bucks extra in the beginning.
I know where one welding supplies place is my area, but even they are invisible when I type welding into Yahoo's yellow pages. My hardcopy phone book has a few places under welding supplies. Am I missing an obvious term to look under, or there just not that many places around? [I'm near Schenectady, NY]
Thanks all- apologies for the long delay. I've been distracted here and thought I already sent this reply last week when I started it.
So they can all have "the lowest price" without any of them having the "exact same model". It's what we call a scam, and pretty standard practice these days. In another example, HD has 36 foot rolls of Vycor. They cost more than the local hardware store's 75 foot rolls, but since they are different, no price match. Since I bother to look both places, I support the local business. HD is often a ripoff, but they assume that you'll assume that their prices are low.
It might, it might not, and it might cost you more than a few bucks. Shop and be aware before buying. Some of your more industrial oriented suppliers will happily sell you a machine at full list price that a business with an account there would get at a 50% discount.
Perhaps because they are a lousy emulation of actual yellowpages? Try bigyellow.com for an on-line version that's close to the real thing.
I see 6 for your immediate area (well, 13 results, 6 of which are irrelevant ads, and 7 real results, 2 of which are the same), which is plenty. Over the hill in SW VT, we have one, and one other south into Mass not too far. Two of your 6 have websites, and one of the websites actually loads, as opposed to going into some sort of stupid multimedia meltdown on the first page.
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Most welding suppliers care little for the web. Unfortunately, a lot also care little for hobby weldors, but you might get lucky, so go visit all your local options and form opinions. Albany, Scotia, Schenectady, Colonie, Latham (2).
Now, then, if you're willing to take a longer leap of faith, the want ad digest (a publication centered near you that does what the name implies) has a number of used welders, though only one MIG today - an Air Products 200V unit, 185 amps, $550. Keep you eye on it and you may find a 110 unit.
Albany craigslist has a Miller 185 with aluminum spool gun for $700
Putting in 220 service, or making up an extension cord to reach from the stove/dryer outlet may be a lot better deal than sticking to a new 110, if you can get a good 220...
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