Continental solenoid starter stopped working

I was cranking this Continental engine, trying to get it to start. It would sputter occasionally but would never really keep going.

After a while, the starter stopped starting. I took off the solenoid part from it, after taking pictures. It does not even seem that the current goes through the solenoid coil.

Before I start taking it apart, I wanted to hear some words of wisdom on this. Could it at all be that the solenoid coil inside burned out?

i
Reply to
Ignoramus8104
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Clip a voltmeter onto the battery and watch the drop.

I've had no-starts from corroded wires, a battery with one weak cell, the Ford fender solenoid, eroded solenoid disk and contacts, brushes worn short, and a stripped plastic pinion gear. All were easily fixed without replacing the starter.

jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

In the olden days the POS from the battery went directly to the input side of the fender solenoid (one of two heavy lugs). The other heavy lug went to the starter only. It was switched by the small center lug that was supplied power from a second small wire from the 'battery side of the solenoid. When the 'start button or key' is on and the motor will not run evenly (or start when cranked) it appears that the batter/solenoid lug is loose or corroded. Or the battery terminals. With good connections all around and the key on, it should start when cranked.

Reply to
Pintlar

My understanding is this Conti has a "delco style" pre-engage starter, with the solenoid not only being the switch, but engaging the drive.

These solenoids have TWO windings - a "pull-in" and a "hold in" winding.On a 3 terminal solenoid both windings connect to the small "S" terminal, and one coil connects to ground, while the other connects to the "M" connection (the large connector that bolts to the motor winding connector).

Check both with an ohm-meter or a continuity tester. If either one is open, buy a new solenoid and install it.

SOME of these solenoids have 4 terminals - with the fourth being a second small terminal that recieves power from the battery when the solenoid is pulled in to bypass the ignition ballast resistor.

Delco solenoids are cheap.

Reply to
clare

Yes. This is what it does.

I took off the solenoid yesterday. It seemed fine. It does get "stuck" sometimes and does nothing when powered on. A light whack with a urethane hammer "unsticks" it.

However, even then, it barely cranks the engine. I did check batteries.

I have a feeling that this solenoid itself is bad and does not work right. It costs $19 to replace and I ordered a replacement. If it does not help, I am out $19.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus446

The voltmeter on the battery catches everything, try it on your truck to see normal operation. It should drop a couple of volts when the starter loads it down. If it doesn't the current is too low for some bad reason.

How easily does the engine turn with a wrench?

jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

A cheap and simple way to check if you have a starter problem or a battery problem is to turn on the headlights when you crank the engine and see how much the headlights dim. Then feel the cables going to the starter and see if they are warm... If they are your starter is drawing a full load and either it is bad or the engine is stuck. A wrench on the engine to turn the crank will determine what is bad.

John

Reply to
John

Also, check the brushes and commutator on the starter. If they get loaded up with crud, they won't get the starter up to speed.

This ain't a 6volt is it?

Paul K. Dickman

Reply to
Paul K. Dickman

I am pretty sure that it is 12 volts.

Where are the brushes? Behind the back cover of the starter?

Reply to
Ignoramus446

Well, the voltage stays near 11v on the starter. It is not so bad.

Where exactly are the brushes on the statrer? In the back? Are they of common type?

i
Reply to
Ignoramus446

There is a strap or band on the back end of the starter. The brushes are under the band. There is usually a bolt and nut that holds the band tight. Starters are easy to overhaul. I've done more than I ever want to remember when i was a kid long ago while working in a repair garage.

John

Reply to
John

Reply to
RoyJ

Thisi s great, sounds like something that I can do. How would I go about replacing the brushes, if they are bad? Are they something standard, that I can get at Napa?

If I do it, I would probably do both brushes and bearings.

I am modestly familiar with bearings, but not with brushes.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus446

Starters mostly all have bushings rather than bearings... It is just a matter of removing the old bushing and replacing it with a new one. You can replace the brushes through the holes in the back of the starter without disassembling it. The first thing to check is that the existing brushes move freely in the brush housing. A can of electroclean will remove any crud in the brush housing. Look at the commutator for any arcing or burned segments. If you got a burned segment from arcing it usually means you have a bad armature or open armature. Usually the heavy winding where they are soldered to the segments crack and don't make connection. Also you have to check the armature windings for shorts to the armature itself. In the garage I used a light bulb plugged into the wall with two leads to put across the segments and the armature... not very safe but very effective. A megger would be much better.

Not sure what model starter you have. If it is the one with the coil piggybacked on the side of the starter I bet the contacts in the solenoid are burned. You can pull the top of the solenoid off and look at the big copper washer that shorts out the two big poles on the solenoid. the washer gets burned and pitted. you could build it up with a little silver solder but I would just get another solenoid. Sticky brushes, worn brushes and a bad solenoid are the most common problems with starters.

John

Reply to
John

Yes, it has a separate solenoid, the big copper washer is very burned and pitted. I ordered a new solenoid assembly for $19.

I will pull the starter tomorrow and will go through it while waiting for the new solenoid.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus446

I couldn't buy the copper contacts separately for my Accord so I piled up brazing rod to restore the original size and turned/filed it smooth. The brass contacts lasted ~50,000 miles, then I added more. Brass melts at a lower temperature than copper.

NAPA didn't have Ford starter brushes but a local motor rebuilding shop did.

This page shows an ammeter that senses the magnetic field around the wire to the the starter:

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has a 400A range for the starter and a 75A range for charging current, selected by which guide slot you press against the wire. It's useful for checking winch and inverter current too.

jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

The real reason for removing the negative terminal first and installing it last is because there's no short circuit hazard if the wrench hits other metal. Once the negative is disconnected the positive won't short either.

jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

The PROPER test is a voltage drop test on both the pos and Neg side. In a few seconds you can pin down EXACTLY where the problem is if it is on the "power" side, not the control. Can do voltage drop on the control side too, which often also finds the problem there.

Look it up. I could tell you how to do it, but what fun would that be???

Reply to
clare

Can't get much more common than Delco - and if the brushes are poor the "pull in" winding does not get grounded, so the solenoid "sticks"

From your description (starts when you hit the starter sometimes) I'd pretty well bet your brushes are worn down to the nub.

Reply to
clare

sorry, buster, but there is no band on a Delco starter. The back end bell comes off, and the brushes are inside. You need to take the starter off and apart - but there is no simpler starter to work on.

Reply to
clare

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