Drat!

Took the carb off the SA 200 today and found the offending clogged port. Put it back together. Was running really good.

Then TWANG!

Something fell into the fan and it threw it into the radiator causing a hole. Looked under the engine, and it was half a lock washer. I have no clue where it vibrated from, probably somewhere around the shroud. I'll take the radiator to Vegas Wednesday where the best radiator man I know has a shop.

It's always something.

In the meantime, I have just put it all on hold and am working on other home projects.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB
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You simply cant use acid core solder to patch the hole?

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

I have successfully repaired radiator holes with JB Weld as well as with solder.

Don Young

Reply to
Don Young

I tried some solder I use for pipes, but it wouldn't work. I will buy some acid core today and try that. I did use flux, too, but no dice. My MAPP gas torch was acting up, so had to use propane/ox cutting torch at a very low setting. May buy a new valve today, too.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

Considering the low initial cost and very high value of this machine as well as its age, IMHO it is well worth doing a proper complete rebuild of the rad at this time. A field repair with solder or especially JB weld is IMHE a temporary fix and IMHO this machine deserves better.

IMHE these rads do suffer damage from vibration and failed solder joints and mounts are fairly common. Most older cooling systems are also suffering the effects of ageing coolant with silica gel and dropout as well as internal corrosion. These old copper & brass rads will really benefit from a proper rad rebuild including a soak in the cleaning tank, removal of the end tanks and a rod out, and the mounts and joints will benefit from solder renewal. This rebuild work will allow the rad to give many more years of service, consider it a half-life rebuild.

I would also suggest you combine the rad rebuild with a proper block flush before refilling with a 50/50 mixture of long life antifreeze and DISTILLED water. DO NOT USE TAP (OR ESPECIALLY WELL) WATER FOR MIXING COOLANT. Distilled or RO or other deionized water can be obtained inexpensively at most health food stores or you can use premixed$$ coolant.

I also suggest this may be a good time to replace the drain plugs and valves with new valves with attached drain hoses that will facilitate easy recovery of coolant at any future required servicing.

When you go to see your friend the rad guy, I suggest you also take your gas tank as the rad cleaning tank will also do a great job of removing any old gas gunk & varnish from it.

Good luck, YMMV

Reply to
Private

PS: Find the other half of the lock washer. Which really means check all the shroud, engine and case bolts and washers at reassembly.

Reply to
Private

"Private" wrote: (clip) These old copper & brass rads will really benefit from a proper

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Will the radiator shop use old-fashioned lead-tin solder, or are they required to use lead-free? Do the troubles I've heard about electrical solder joints extend to radiators as well? Seems really relevant in an application like this, with lots of vibration.

Reply to
Leo Lichtman

Regulations may /often vary in different jurisdictions, but AFAIK lead free solder is only required to be used in plumbing potable water. I am not aware of issues with electrical troubles, please enlighten me. In this case most of the original solder will probably remain on the parts and very little additional solder will be required.

I still have lots of old solder in my stock and have not needed to buy any recently but am not aware of any problems obtaining lead-tin solder from the usual industrial suppliers, you may not be able to buy it from Home Depot or small plumbing suppliers. I do not really like the flux or acid cored wire solders and prefer to use solid wire solder and separate flux. Even electrical work seems to have better results when wires are dipped in flux even when using flux cored solder. In any event the real key seems to be doing a really good cleaning before any soldering starts. Quality welding, brazing, soldering and painting are all mostly about preparation.

I agree that this application involving old technology four cylinder engines is prone to lots of vibration, and towing on a trailer can lead to large shock loads from rough roads.

Just my .02, YMMV

Reply to
Private

The EU ROHS regs that mandate lead free electrical solder have resulted in a lot of issue with connection failures from vibration and thermal cycling. They had to exempt anything aerospace so it wouldn't start killing people.

The EU ROHS nonsense hasn't impacted DIY electronic stuff yet, but watch out for early failures in many new consumer items that are being manufactured to meet EU specs. If you resolder with proper solder you can likely fix them in most cases.

Reply to
Pete C.

I'm not sure that heat and vibration are even needed. Do a search on "tin wiskers". This seems to be a basic part of the tin chemistry that only the addition of lead really solves. A lot of the stress arises from the tin dissolving the base metal is it soldered to and the enrgy and stress of incorporating it into its own crystal matrix. Apparently Zinc does this too.

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I wouldn't be suprised to see them give up in 5 or 10 years just say "OK, y'all can go back to using lead now." --Glenn Lyford

Reply to
glyford

TY. I would have never thought of the gas tank. I went to buy some solder today, but it wasn't meant to be. My small Mormon town Checker Store didn't have it. Ace is closed on Sundays, as is every other business in the state.

When I looked down the neck of the radiator, I saw rust, so have decided to take it to Vegas Wednesday and just have it done right or get another. No sense doing all this, and not getting the radiator gone through, too.

While it is apart, I'm probably going to paint it, too.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

Solder that is used with irons are not hard enough and strong enough. They also melt and dissolve with the hot fluids.

Normally the cores are Silver Soldered. or Hard solder as it is called.

Have to use a torch to solder with it.

Martin

Mart>>> >>>

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Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

Hard solder - silver solder. Never lead or tin or like solders. Heat makes tin and lead oxide. Heat melts solder. Solder isn't strong enough.

Martin

Mart> "Private" wrote: (clip) These old copper & brass rads will really benefit

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Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

How does one go about that? I had thought I'd take off the thermostat neck, get a new thermostat while I'm in there, and just flush water through to get out the big stuff. Then, after I seal everything up, buy a product for rad flushing. Tips appreciated. When I drained, it, it had remarkably green/clearish liquid. But I do see some rust and crud in the passages. Might as well do all this while it's apart.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

There are lots of commercial flushing systems available, some are very harsh and require neutralizers and lots of flushing to remove. Some are very hard on hoses. Since you will be starting with a clean rebuilt rad the most important part is already done, (and I add done better than any flush). I have had good luck using a clean water flush followed by filling with a strong mixture of (Calgon) dishwasher detergent and water. I let it circulate in a running hot engine for 1/2 hour or so and follow with a thorough warm running flush with clean water and with all drains open, then a warm running flush with distilled water. I do not bother to remove the thermostat but I do make sure that the engine reaches operating temp and the thermostat is opening properly. After final drain, refill with 50/50 long life coolant and distilled water.

Good luck, YMMV

Reply to
Private

and please use a pet safe coolant.

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

The normal flushing procedure is to dump a can of a radiator flush concentrate in the engine, bring it up to operation temp, let it sit for

10 to 30 minutes, then flush with clean water until it runs clear. You especially want to open any block drains to flush out the crud that accumulates in the lower passages. It's not uncommon to need to use a coat hanger in the block drain holes to get the passageway opened up enough to flow.
Reply to
RoyJ

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