Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod

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I have a box of 3/32 E7018 welding rod that spent a while without
being kept in a dryrod oven. Also a bunch of Stoody 21 hardfacing
rod.

I am doing an experiment, I took a few of each kind of rods and I will
dry them in a natural gas grill at the highest setting. Then I will
compare how they work after being dried, with ones that I have not
dried.

My grill can go to something like 730 degrees. I measured it with an
infrared thermometer gun. Maybe it will rise to 750 or so.

Do you think that an hour at full temp ought to be enough?

i

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
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I did not wait long enough to measure the temperature. The temp rose
to 870 degrees.

i

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Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
Ignoramus3462 wrote:
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You should not need a high temperature, just enough to evaporate moisture.

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
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This is not true.

The "moisture" in the rod is in chemical combination with the flux. It
needs high temperature to break that chemical bond.

i
i

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
Ignoramus3462 wrote:
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Ig, you're a hands-on kind of guy, right? How would you like to do an
experiment? Dry a few at 750, and a few at, say, 250 - 300, and see which
works best? And, just for us noobs, it might also help to say what
happens with moist electrodes. I never knew there was a difference
until just a couple of years ago.

Just another sidenote - after they've been dried, how long is it before
they absorb moisture again?

Thanks!
Rich


Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod

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Absorbing moisture again in bad shop conditions is all over in hours,
I'm told.  Hence hot quivers.  There's drying ovens to 400degC -
setable and accurately controlled.  And hot quivers at about 120degC -
simple, light, portable, robust and not controlled.

Basics ("lo-hi"'s / 7016/7018) are reckoned to saturate out at about
the same hydrogen level as Rutiles (6013's).  Sounds about right - was
interested to see steam coming out of rod oven door when flipped it
open to see how my rods were re-drying.

Rich S

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
wrote:
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You could dry one or two rods to constant weight and then see if a
higher temperature decreased their weight.

The fumes from the burning gas contain water vapor.

http://www.keenovens.com/articles/7018-storage-2.htm

jsw

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
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I just measured the temperature in the grill again. It is now 930
degrees. Much hotter than I expected.

It is true that burning gas produces water vapor, but at 930 degrees,
it should not matter, it is hot enough to release water from the
chemical bond on electrode flux.

i

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod

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Remember at that high a temperature the water will change to steam a lot
faster than on a slow heat increase, and the steam could pop off the flux or
cause cracking.

Steve



Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
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It looks like the flux stayed on the rods. I only heated four or so,
just to compare and learn something.

i

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
What I have is an old convection oven.  It was moms.
We had a nice one so I took it to the shop as a small oven.

Bake or broil or Toast (both) with or without a fan.  Has
temp setting and time shutoff setting.

I hope to experiment with small things with power coating.

But cooking rods in a Bar-B-Que was me - I put the rods in vac bags.
Then packed them into Tall Ammo cans.

When I open a can of rods, I put them into a Tall ammo can with rubber seal.

Martin

On 2/5/2011 8:58 AM, Ignoramus3462 wrote:
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Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod

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Be careful.  I'd say that fifteen minutes would be enough to get the water
out.  Longer might affect the ability of the flux to stick to the rod, or
the glue holding it on if there is any.  And cooling from that temperature
could create cracked flux.  Just thoughts, I'm not really sure.  I knew when
you bought all those rods that you were going to have moisture storage
issues.

Steve



Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
wrote:
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Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod

"Ignoramus3462"
message
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Check this out:
http://www.metalsmith.org/edu/materials/weldrodstore.html




Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
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Thanks.

OK, so I should be good then, it looks like.

I do not really need that, I will give this 7018 away to someone for
welding practice. If I need to weld something and it requires 7018, I
would rather use something known good. At $2 a pound, it is not too
expensive.

I have a 50 lb oven where I keep welding rod.

But it would be a good thing to learn about.

i

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
Ignoramus3462 wrote:
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Here is what Lincoln Electric recommends (from Stick Electrode Product
Catalog):

============================================

One hour at the listed final temperature (for E7018/E7028: 650F-750F) is
satisfactory. DO NOT
dry electrodes at higher temperatures. Several hours at lower
temperatures is not equivalent to using the specified requirements.

Any low hydrogen electrode should be discarded if excessive redrying
causes the coating to become fragile and flake or break
off while welding, or if there is a noticeable difference in handling
or arc characteristics, such as insufficient arc force.

Electrodes to be re-dried should be removed from the can and
spread out in the oven because each electrode must reach the
drying temperature.

============================================

Jon



Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
Here's a little update. Better measured at electrodes (and not just
pointing the infrared thermometer at the lava stones), the electrodes
get heated to 650 degrees inside the grill.

I did some comparisons of welds by dried and undried electrodes.

There is little visible difference with 7018 electrodes, great looking
welds at 70 amps in both cases. Just two little tiny voids in a weld
with an undried electrode. Might be random. These are Lincoln 7018 H4R
electrodes and R stands for moisture resistance. So, perhaps, these
rods did not pick up that much moisture in the first place.

I also compared the Stoody 21 hardfacing rods. Here, there is a huge
difference and where I had voids surfacing with unbaked hardfacing
rods, there are NO voids at all when I used a baked electrode. Just
really great results.

I will rebake all my hardfacing rod.

i



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Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
Ignoramus3462 wrote:
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Did you hear the difference too?


John

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
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The hardfacing arc  was more stable.

i

Re: Drying E7018 and hardfacing welding rod
Jon Danniken wrote:
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I use my heat treating for drying welding rod.   The oven has precise
temp. control and enough room to spread out the rods.
Buy rods in the smallest sealed package that they have .

John

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