fixing cracked weld in JD loader arm

I need to repair a cracked weld on one of the arms of a recent vintage John Deere loader. I plan on drilling a small hole at each end of the crack and grinding a v in the crack. I would then weld it up with a HH 175 and .035 flux core wire. Does this sound reasonable or should it be repaired with another method of welding?

Reply to
bitternut
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Sounds good to me.

I don't use flux core very much, but the times I have used it - things came out ok.

I just rest a little better at night when I use a DC+ E6011 arc weld.

Your technique (drilling a hole at each end of the crack and grinding a groove for the filler) is perfect.

If you doubt the strength of your welds at all and the vintage JD is not a show tractor, after you finish with your FCAW, you could finish everything off by putting a piece of 1/4-inch plate over the area. It would be like a big band-aide. Ugly? Yes, but splash a little green JD paint on there, and in another 2 years, you won't even know it is there anymore!

Good luck! ~Joe

"bitternut" wrote:

Reply to
jp2express

Rather than adding the ugly 1/4" plate make a nice looking reinforcement plate and a matching one for the opposite arm. Don't weld the plate on by welding across the arm as this will be where the next crack will appear. Steve

Reply to
Up North

If you could post a photo of the crack and the surrounding structure, it would be very helpful and would certainly improve the quality of the advice for repair.

For a recent machine I would contact JD with the model and serial number and request guidance as to the material used in construction and for repair suggestions. This failure may be a known problem and there could be a secret warranty or service letter to deal with the issue. Ask your dealer AND send the factory an email and hope.

If this is just a failed factory filet weld then the repair is fairly simple, just completely remove the faulty weld (ArcAir and/or grinder) and redo. However if the actual plate material has cracked then the repair is a lot more difficult. The following comments are general suggestions for cracks in the plate material or in butt welds.

Not to me, YMMV.

IMHO this is a job for low hydrogen, minumum E7018 and maybe E8018 or E11018 depending on the age of the loader and the material it is made of, the newer machines are much more likely to be constructed from high tensile or T1 (E11018) material but this is also dependent on the particular model, YMMV. The E7018 is more ductile but the higher tensile rods have good notch toughness and can be superior for low temperature impact and shock loads. I suspect that the material is pretty thin and suspect/suggest 3/32" rod size both for increased control and to limit the heat input. Preheat with a torch both as a favor to the steel and to ensure there is no moisture or oil residue in the crack or weld area. Post heat to allow slow cooling.

Why would you want to drill a hole? This is steel not glass or plastic and IMHO repair should be a 100% penetration root pass in a properly prepared groove. The repair should begin and end in sound uncracked steel as any crack (or undercut) left in the root will act as both a notch and a stress raiser. The secret is in the root and it should be as close to perfect as possible. Many people like to use straight polarity (for the lowhydrogen root only) to control excessive burn through. Exx10 or 11 is preferable to a poorly made lowhydrogen root and you will likely be grinding most of it away preparing the groove for the second pass..

The problem with 'fish plates' or other reinforcement (including welds that are excessively high or proud of the surface) is that they make that area stiffer than the surrounding structure and just chase the stress to a new location or cause a crack at the toe of the repair. There should be NO undercut in the final pass and the weld must be free of any slag inclusions, a small angle grinder with a very thin grinding disk works well for both groove prep and to clean between passes. Keep the groove as narrow as possible. I like to save additional reinforcement plates for use later if the initial repair fails and there are several tricks that can help to reduce their tendency to decrease flexibility and concentrate stress. Fish plates are not a substitute for a proper repair.

I do not know the value of this machine but if it is a larger or more valuable unit then there is good economic reason to do the repair properly and it may be worthwhile to hire a professional, YMMV Good luck.

Reply to
Private

The loader is on my neighbors tractor and is a 4000 series tractor that is only three or four years old. He bought it used and he has no idea how the loader got the cracked weld. I have not seen the bad weld yet so I have no idea what it looks like. I don't live there but own property next to his and he asked me to weld it up for him. I will have to haul my welder there so maybe I will wait until I get a look at the crack. I have a Dynasty 200DX as well as the wire welder so I could also use tig or stick. I will see if I can find out what kind of steel they use for manufacture.

As for drilling a small hole at each end of the crack I have done that many times and never had a repeat failure. I was shown that over 45 years ago when I was an apprentice and it always seemed to work.

Reply to
bitternut

The idea behind drilling a hole at the end of each crack is an attempt to ensure you remove the hairline cracks at the end points. Like the "Private" said, "The repair should begin and end in sound uncracked steel as any crack (or undercut) left in the root will act as both a notch and a stress raiser."

I'm sure a TIG weld would work on this tractor, but it certainly would not be my first choice. Pretty, yes, but also clumsy, bulky, and slow.

Where are you located? Anywhere near zip 75601?

"bitternut" wrote:

Reply to
jp2express

In addition to glass or plastic, stop drilling is also very beneficial to stop the progression of cracks in Lexan or Plexiglas and is also commonly used in aircraft aluminum sheeting. In most of these cases a full welded (or glued) repair is not possible. In the case of aircraft the full repair is commonly a reinforcement doubler plate riveted over the cracked area, and the stop drilled hole is to reduce the tendency for the crack to continue to progress due to repeated load and thermal cycling and flexing.

Good luck, YMMV

Reply to
Private

Something I've always wondered about re stopping a crack by drilling a hole at its end: if the hole isn't at the very end of the crack, it probably won't help since you will still get the stress riser at the end. But in steel and cast iron, the actual end isn't visible. I.e., the crack is visible only when there is sufficient separation or offset of the 2 sides, but the actual fracture will extend beyond that. With no separation, at least not that is visible.

How does one know how far it extends, to know where to drill the stop hole?

Thanks, Bob

Reply to
Bob Engelhardt

When we did engine repairs in the military, we used liquid penetrant testing to find the crack. After the crack was found, we tried to guess how much further back the crack went that we could not see, make a wish, and hope we drilled far enough out.

That's been years ago, but that was how the military had us repair Detroit and Cummins engines whenever they cracked. Not very exact, but it was good enough for military use.

Here is an article on it:

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~Joe

"Bob Engelhardt" asks:

Reply to
jp2express

That is still the way they do it now. The best location to drill the hole is "best guess". the crack will extend further than you can see and further than known detection devices can detect. I got a crash coure in this when a team had to come out to repair the pedastal for a weather radar I maintain.

Reply to
Jimmie D

Maybe bit fancy, however...

When you use a magnetic-based drill with a "shell" cutter ("Slugger", "Rotabroach"), you eject a central discard. You could polish a cross-section of that and see if the crack ends within the discard. Then you would know for sure you are in the clear... Is this a known procedure? Have heard of something like it for oil-rigs.

Rich S

Reply to
Richard Smith

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Reply to
jp2express

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*
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*
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Reply to
Private

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Reply to
Private

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