Home wiring and plugging in a welder

Bert,

Don't do it lad. The dryer outlet is usually only rated for 20 amps. For a 220v welder you'll likely need 50 amps.

As far as the wiring part goes, yes it would work, but the risk of overload is much too great.

I had a similar problem in my house. I ended up getting a sub-panel installed, with the appropriate sized wiring and breakers. If your house panel and line in from the pole isn't rated for at least 100 amps, you would be taking quite a chance.

It may end up costing you a bit of money, but the cost is peanuts compared to having a fire.

Hope this helps,

Intrepid

Bert...........It depends on the welder that you are planning on plugging into it. My HH175 is 220volt and came with a 6-50 plug on it. I wired up a

220volt 20amp circuit using #12 copper wire as per the owners manual. My Dynasty 200DX and Spectrum 375 plasma cutter plug into the same receptacle. They all work very nicely on this circuit ( one at a time of course ). Your requirements will be determined by the welder you are planning on using. You will have to read the owners manual to see what is required. DO NOT PUT A LARGER AMP BREAKER IN THE DRYER CIRCUIT. If you pull too many amps for the present circuit the breaker will trip. Remember that the breaker is there to protect the wiring not the device plugged into it. I would assume that the present breaker and wiring are properly sized but you should check to be sure. If you have any doubts check with a qualied electrician. Good luck.

Two thoughts:

If you have an electric stove, check that too.

I use a 225A buzzbox on a 30A dryer circuit with no problems, with this caveat: I've never used more than

120A, so am only drawing about 30A or less from the input side. If yours is 30A and all you're welding is 1/8" or so angle iron and the like, you'll be fine. If you're laying down multiple passes of 3/16 rod to weld 1/2" plate, you will probably have issues.

If this is a wire welder, someone else will have to give you their take on whether this would work. We can give you better information if you mention the size of the breaker/fuse for this circuit and the make and model of the welder...

--Glenn Lyford

You can use that 3-wire circuit, since there is no neutral load (120V devices) in any welders I've seen. The neutral wire is bonded to ground at the main panel, so for all practical purposes they're the same thing - but they don't want you connecting any load returns (like the dryer drum light or the oven light) to the safety ground.

All new installs are supposed to be 4-wire with separate neutral and ground. Old installs are grandfathered as-is, but you can change them over to 4-wire if you want, and can (if they're in conduit or you have 4-wire Romex in the walls).

Will work fine - but make sure the breaker is rated to protect the wires, don't change it out for a larger one. And if you crank the welder up all the way and start laying big beads, you might trip it out.

If the main panel is convenient to the garage and has some capacity left, you can add your own 50A welder receptacle - unless you have an oddball main panel like a Zinsco or ITE Pushmatic, it can be done for under $50 in parts. Just use a short piece of flex conduit and put a surface mount plug below the panel - or if the panel is on the outside of the garage wall, use a nipple out the back of the panel can, and surface mount a 4S box right behind it in the garage.

Buy the breaker seal and knockout plug now, and you can remove it all fast and plug the holes when you move. Or just remove the breaker and receptacle and blank off the new 4S box, leave the box so the next renter can use it.

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That's what I thought; I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking some nuance of the neutral line concept that would end up wreaking havoc on my welder (or me!).

The welder specs say that max output for TIG mode requires a 208V/32A or 230V/29A input circuit; for max stick output, the required input is

208V/40A or 230V/38A. My dryer circuit is 30A and I measured the voltage to be about 240V. So, I don't expect any problems for TIG; for stick, I'll have to stay below max to keep from tripping the breaker, but I expect I'll be using TIG mode 90 % of the time anyway.

Adding a welder receptacle in the garage is what I would like to do, but I'm not sure that's an (economical) option. The main panel has only one empty breaker slot, but I assume I would need two slots for a new 240V circuit, correct? That means I would have to add another panel (at a cost considerably higher than $50), right? Or are there other options? Could I for instance connect both the welder outlet and the range outlet to the same 50A breaker (and still meet code)?

Bert

I have a simular question..Just got a Miller Syncrowave 180SD and the manual shows connecting to a lock out box... I want to be able to move it around the shop... I have 3 wall mounted plug-ins ( dryer type plugs) connected to a 50 amp breaker. Can I just wire it up with a dryer type plug? Jack

P.S. thanks for any thoughts anybody has > I would like to plug a 220V welder into my dryer outlet, since that is

Yes! That's what the electritions did to the one in my shop at work. I think they were also looking forward to the time when physical plant people might need to borrow it (which the recently did). If I remember right the manual called for a 60 A circuit, but if you don't run it at max it shouldn't be a problem.

thanks, I thought that it would be alright...

The manual said, Max circuit breaker or fuse in amperes: Time delay = 60 (time delay fuses are class "RH5") Normal operating = 80 ( UL class "K5" upto and including 60 amp - UL class "H" 65 amp and above) Jack

In a commercial shop they'll insist on making everything easy to Lockout & Tagout. If the equipment is hard-wired to the wall, it always needs a safety switch of some sort (even in a home shop!) - but if it's cord connected, there's your disconnect.

Just buy one of the Universal Cord Lockouts - or build one, which can be as simple as an old small toolbox with a notch (or sets of various sized notches) on the lid and a locking hasp, painted red. And a padlock that /only one responsible person/ has the key or knows the combination.

Unplug the welder and stick the plug inside the box, lock the lid closed, and nobody is going to be plugging it in on you.

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Tell us what brand panel you have, the model breakers it takes (or can take) and what's in there now.

If you still have the label on the panel cover you're golden, it will tell you whether you can use "duplex" breakers that fill one 1" slot and give you two circuits, and which slots they will fit in.

Or the "quad" breakers that'll give you one 50A 2-pole for the welder and two single 15A or 20A poles for the branch circuits you unplugged to make room. (They also make 250-230 quads that will feed the welder and dryer or water heater from the same 2" space - but that's drawing too much power for the bus-bar stabs in most panels, especially if it's an Aluminum buss panel.)

If the label is missing, does it have the stabs that have a "notch" in the middle (Cutler Hammer/Challenger or Crouse Hinds/Murray/ Siemens) or the T fitting with the horizontal bar (GE)? That's what you need to plug in thin breakers.

If it's a Zinsco, does it have "bumps" on the busbars to reject the RC-38 double breakers? And on Federal Pacific, it needs to have the right slots punched out on the busbars where the breaker plugs in.

Strict interpretation, no way. If an inspector sees it, he's not going to pass it. You're not supposed to make splices inside the panel for openers. And when you add the second branch breaker he'll insist on a new load calculation, the numbers of which will probably call for a service panel upgrade from 100A/125A to 200A, or 200A to

300A/400A"...

But as long as you don't try to cook and weld at the same time, and you make a neat bolted connection in the panel, go for it. (And remember that "we never had this conversation"...) ;-P

You'll need to splice the welder leads and the stove leads to a short chunk of piece-out wire to go into the breaker (split-bolt puttied and taped, or Polaris insulated splice), and then tuck everything back in neatly so the cover goes back on.

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I strongly suggest that you clear any renovations with your landlord. He's gonna want proof that you have a safe work area and adequate insurance to protect his investment. Then he's going to want you to hire a competent electrician to do the work.

Failure to do this might get you evicted.

Stuart

Unless you have an inverter welder, you don't have enough supply amperage.

The panel is a Bryant/Westinghouse Cat. No. 12-24 FN, SN Type 1 Enclosure, Max Mains Rating 125A. The diagram on the label indicates that all slots can use duplex breakers, though oddly the diagram doesn't exactly match the panel -- it shows 12 slots but there are actually 16. There is no indication of quad breakers on the diagram. The list of breaker types allowed is BR, BRH, BD, BQ, BJ, BJH, GFCB, GFCBH, BRWH, BRSN. (Is BQ a quad breaker?) The bus panel and bus bars are aluminum; wiring is copper.

The current configuration is

2 slots occupied by main breaker (Bryant type BR2100) 2 slots occupied by range breaker (Bryant type BR250) 2 slots occupied by dryer breaker (Bryant type BR230) 4 slots occupied by duplex 20A breakers (Bryant type BRD BD20-20) 5 slots occupied by duplex 15A breakers (Bryant type BRD BD15-15) 1 slot open.

What conversation? ;-)

I guess you are talking about a bloody big industrial welder - here in Oz we are on 240v (though my supply is around 220v) and most home welders run off either a 10amp or 15amp outlet. My mig and my stick welder both run off a 15 amp outlet (not at the same time of course)

The big boy welders in factories tend to use 440v 3 phase

David - who doesn't know much about welding, but a little about electricity

Intrepid wrote

Oh, they're out there. My Lincoln 300/300 has a convenience outlet on the front panel-----120V, 8 amps. Could have a transformer inside, though. Dunno.

Harold