Will the Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC InverterPro-Wave power the Ready Welder mig spool gun w/o any problems?
I'd love own Miller's Dynasty line... but my checkbook won't allow it! :(
I'm trying to figure out how I can get a quality Tig + Stick + Mig setup....
Welding on my backhoe is the heaviest welding that I get in to.... and generally, I run my Lincoln 225 AC buzz box in the 75 to 140 range for most of the welding that I do. I've been wanting to tinker w/ Tig & Mig for quite some time.... and if the TA 185 will work in conjunction w/ the Ready Welder... I just may be where I want to be!
Ernie... I know that you have suggested the Maxstar 140 and/or 150 to me in the past... and I do think of that possibility. But, for some unexplainable reason ( IOW's... I don't know why I do some of the things that I do! :) ) , I'd still like to be able to do TIG Aluminum welding.
I don't intend to do any mass production jobs.... so I don't think I will need water cooled torches... or Hi-amp machines. Any AL that I'd weld would most likely be under 1/4".
If I can buy the TA Pro Wave for $1750 + a Ready Welder for $430 + two tanks of gas... for another $ 300 + or - , then I'm looking at <$2,500.
Could someone please double check my figures? I haven't figured in any other consumables.... what would be a good figure to use in getting started? I have plenty of AC stick rod.... and some AC/DC.
Oh yeah.... what about the 11000 CS series of the Ready Welder guns that are coming out? Anyone seen the prices of these?
Yes, no problem. As far as the welder is concerned, it thinks it is stick welding.
It is a good package.
Then it should work fine.
Sounds about right
According to their website the new CS gun only works off of batteries and CV (MIG) power sources, so it won't work off of a CC (Stick) power source.
Except for the stick welding mode. If he hasn't bought one yet, he needs to know about this pitfall. Next to unusable in stick mode. Maybe the ready welder wouldn't be affected in the same way, who knows. Just don't sell the Lincoln 225 stick welder yet until you see if you like stick mode on the 185 (for regular stick welding).
One of my former students brought in his Prowave 185TSW and we had no trouble stick welding with it. I wonder why you had such trouble. It is possible your machine was faulty.
Can you tell me more about this Ernie? What was he welding, what rod, and how clean was his workpiece ? Book says it needs like 100 Ohms or so before it will release the low voltage lock down mode. Problem I have is, you got to really scratch down to get it going, and you hand up sticking in doing so, so you pull away, and it starts all over again. I dunno, I'll play with it yet again. And starting 7018? ge-sus, that rods hard enough on its own, much let alone this deal. Question, have you, yourself tried to run some rod with this thing? 11, 13, maybe 18? say 1/8" in the 100 Amp range? Try it.
I ran 1/8" 7018. Starting was a bit tricky but the welding was fine. 6011 also ran fine.
I was running DCEP on both, at around 120 amps.
Mind you I teach this stuff for a living so I get more practice than most.
Thanks, appreciate that. BTW, whats the status of the classes? - I didn't make this term, but when does next term start etc, and can I join whats left of this etc? (I'm right down the street from you in Maple Valley)
Spring quarter ends June 18th. Summer starts up on June 28th.
Sign up for WFT 297, 4 credits, section 2. Monday and Wednesday evenings, 5:30 - 9:30 pm.
I'll pipe up in favor of the TA185.
I took advantage of Ernie's offer for free rod and picked up 100 lbs. of 3/32" 8018 and 50 lb. of 1/8" 6010.
I ran a rod of the 8018 on a piece of 1/4" bar. The steel was reasonably clean. I used 80A DCEP and I was able to run some nice beads. Mind you I am not much of a stick weldor, but wanted practice for the occasional heavier section.
I was pretty frustrated at first and thought my machine was busted. Then I realized the foot pedal needed to be pressed to weld. I grabbed a handy fire brick and pegged the pedal. Then everything worked fine. I attribute any difficulty starting (and especially restarting) this rod to my lack of experience with SMAW and the fact that I didn't bake the rod first (the container had a small tear).
Just another data point...
Ernie, you got any more of that free rod? - I need a little.
WTF? SMAW isn't susposed to involve "foot pedals". However, like I posted when I first got my TS 185, I did do just this (out of fustration), and it did work quite well actually - set the TA 185 to "TIG" mode, and press the foot pedal to stick weld. Weird huh ? So thats a tough trade off - just string out the standard cables for the Thunderbolt and SMAW away, or cable out the TA 185, and its foot pedal, and hope the pedal doesn't land in a mud puddle, or any other rough stuff that SMAW areas are known for. I can TIG in the garage with the door closed, but SMAW is usually an outdoor activity.
How does that work since you need to cycle the pedal to trigger the HF arc (for TIG mode), right ??
On 18 rod, look around on Google for how to dry it. Its a little more involved than just cooking her at 300 degrees. And if you are in Seattle, even more important with the moisture. But anyways...
Humm, yeah.... You had a lot stacked against you. To verify, you were doing SMAW, but had the TA 185 in "TIG Mode", right ? (the foot pedal thing.)
I had the machine in stick mode, DCEP @ 80 amps with about 30 amps of "hot start". It is not uncommon for stick/tig machines to allow use of the foot pedal when in stick mode. I know Miller 180's will allow the pedal to be used.
I gather that if I unplugged the remote, I would not need to bother with the pedal for SMAW. I was just lazy and left it plugged in since I currently use the machine for TIG only. I was pretty surprised not to get an arc until I thought to rest a brick on the pedal to "turn it on".
BTW, I saw Lincoln's drying procedure for 8018 rod and it involves going up to a pretty high temp. I need to find a pal with a kiln...
Ok,now I'm really confused. Are you saying that the "foot pedal" works in stick mode on the T/A 185TSW? Why/how would that be ? I don't remember being able to do that, and I'm abouts to try that in like 5 minutes.
Strange. Ok, I'll verify with Mr Purple here in about 5 min.
Yup - thats why I mentioned it.
Be back in a bit.
About 4000 lbs of it. When can I expect your flatbed truck?
I have about 1000 lbs of the good stuff. 8018 and 9018 in 3/32" and 5/32".
The rest is HUGE 3/16" 6010, and 7010, and 7/32" 7014.
*Most* TIG welders will run the full output set on the dial for stick welding when the pedal is *removed* from the machine. So instead of putting a brick on it, you may be able to just unplug it.
OTOH, try *using* the pedal while stick welding, same as you would while TIG welding. You may find that the extra degree of current control will make welding easier (great for filling that hole you burned in the work).
hehe, its not the "control" we're after, we're after being able to easily start the arc with these low voltage trip circuits in these new inverters. But, I do got to admidt, putting the TA 185 in TIG mode with the stinger on it *is* very cool! Get that HF starting, and blap!, got 18 rod running like no ones business *and* got that foot pedal pumping action going. Just feels wrong. hehe :)
The Hobart Stickmate is a Miller Thunderbolt, and the Thunnderbolt is a nice machine for smoothness. Just keep the book handy, every now and then you have to tighten the armature slide bolts, because over time the crank will get a tad bit loose, and uncrank (lower) the current as you weld. Really messed with my head there for a while since I weld in the back yard, and the welder is clean around in the garage with long welding cables. But I really do love that welder. So why you getting rid of the Lincoln 225? - never ran one, but ever since I got the Thunderbolt/Stick Mate, no reason to try one.
Good, because as a TIG welder, you will really like this machine. Well built, nice accessory's, small, and I just love it.
Doesn't appear to be faulty, but I dunno. Too used to the Thunderbolt I guess. I dunno, when I'm in the "zone", I just like to scratch down and weld, and not have to be distracted with that whole startup thing, real pain. (guess I'm spoiled)
Again. you will love the TA 185, I like it more (for TIG) everyday. I'm new to TIG, but I'm on my way. On my 3rd tank of gas so far. Haveing it provide the same joy as I get with my Thunderbolt (A/C) would be absolute heaven, but I do know thats asking a lot, and maybe a bit unrealistic. For stick, I'm more of a traditional A/C guy, and never liked DC stick welding all that much, and never really had the need for DC stick welding, so if the TA 185 ever did have no startup problems, At best, it would just be a good DC stick welder. However, I did experiment with the A/C stick mode, and it was just "different". (Squarewave A/C instead of pure sinewave of the Thunderbolt/StickMate).
Well, I too have been looking at the Ready welder for exactally this same reason, thus why following this thread so much. I really do want/need to get a MIG setup, and the choice is either that Lincoln SP-135 series thing on 110 volts with what, 2% duty cycle ? (yuk), so roughly the *same* money, basically unlimited juice, and no new boxes to stack up, and find room for. And I think Ernie thinks these things are Ok, so I'm seriously looking at this this.
One "questionable" thing about the ReadyWelders.... They say good for CC (Constant Current) machine, *or* CV (Constant Voltage). So how can this be ? All stick welders are CC, and MIG definetly needs to be CV, so this leaves me wondering about this, and if the ReadyWelder can really perform like a "true" MIG welder (with CV). So, I'm still researching.
Being an electronics type, I bought a few hundred TO-3 power transistors, emitter resistors and such, and I'm thinking about making a CV attachment for the Thunderbolt. (probably gonna be just a linier, LM723 type design)
That it is, isn't it ? I'm amazed with the talent in here, and the experience levels and such. These people in here arn't just backyard welders - they're actually really knowledgable about the mechanics, and science behind welding, metallurgy, chemistry and the like.
MIG uses CV so that if the operator varies stick out while moving the gun (almost unavoidable), the arc voltage remains the same. Same arc voltage means same heat when you move the gun around (welding heat is a function of voltage times current), so you get consistent welds.
Now with a CC supply, arc voltage varies with stick out, and so the heat varies as you move the gun. Welders use this to advantage when stick welding, ie varying the arc length varies the heat in the weld. But for wire feed machines this is not good, welding occurs too fast for the operator to dynamically compensate. The result is crappy inconsistent welds.
Wire feeders designed to work off CC sources have a voltage sensing circuit that monitors arc voltage. If arc voltage changes due to varying stick out, the feeder dynamically compensates by varying wire feed speed until the previously set arc voltage is restored. This keeps welding heat constant as you move the gun, so you get good consistent welds, same as if you were using a CV source.
This speed compensation works pretty well in most cases. There are situations where it can cause problems, but for the majority of welding situations where you're running off a CC source, it is better to have it than not.
CV welders are used with constant rate wire feeders. CV welder's Volt/Amp curve is designed so MIG welding arc length is held constant as welder changes his stickout or gun to work distance. The CV flat volts slope or curve to amps means small voltage changes results in big amp changes. As arc is shortened the CV voltage decreases a little and the amps increases a lot burning off wire faster restoring arc length. When arc is shortened the CV voltage increases a little and the amps decreases a lot so wire is burned off slower restoring arc length. This is called self regulation. This is the simple explanation of what is happening when wire feed welding. Short circuit transfer is a lot more complicated as wire shorts to work stopping arc then arc reingition happens in cycle 20 to 250 times a second both voltage and amps are constantly changing during the short circuit cycle.
A CC welder are commonly used for SMAW (stick) welding and GTAW (TIG) welding. CC welder has steep voltage curve to amps makes it easier to start arc and maintain arc while changing arc length. When arc length is increased the voltage increases a lot to help maintain the arc and the current decreases a little. The longer arc spreads heat over wider area so puddle cools. When arc length is decreased the voltage droops lower and current goes up a little. The shorter arc concentrates heat into smaller puddle.
Wire feeders designed for CC welders are voltage tracking increasing feed rate as voltage increases and decreasing feed rate as voltage decreases. This helps maintain constant arc length as wire stickout changes. This type of feeder is often powered by welding current or have a welding current sensing wire. They are easier to use when in spray transfer mode. I think this is because voltage and amp changes during short circuit cycle make it hard for the feeder to respond properly.