Using carbonator pump for TIG water cooler?

Many people think that a 5 gallon bucket will supply enough cooling without a heat exchanger. So maybe you don't need anymore than your bucket and pump. I built my own (actually, the guy who works for me did) and put in a bullseye sight into the tank side to check the water level, a sight above the first sight into the top of the tank to let enough light in to actually see the level, and another glass tube sight that sticks above the tank to check for flow. The return hose connects to this sight.My tank is on top of the welder so it's visible just by glancing at it. I can see the flow from across the shop when someone else is welding. There is also a water cooled fuse that is installed in line with the torch hose. I don't have this yet because it's back-ordered. You may think all this is overkill. You are probably right. But I've seen a couple tig cables burn up almost instantly when the coolant level was low or someone forgot to turn on the machine. I put a relay in my machine that powers a 115 volt receptacle. My pump is plugged into this receptacle. So when the welder is on so is the pump. I see you want to do the same thing. For people like me who forget things like turning on the pump it's very nice. Oh, I almost forgot. My tank is sealed except for a 20 micron filtered vent. I worked in a place that had some kind of open vent and the coolant inside the tank was full of all kinds of grit. No good for your pump. ERS

Thanks Eric, detailed reply below

Well, I already have over a dozen of these exchangers. So, adding one is no big deal.

That fuse is a very clever idea.

Yes, my welding machine has several 24V signal outputs. One of them is for turning on an external water cooler. My cooler would be turned on by a relay connected to that 24v output, and would be constantly plugged in.

And only runs the pump when the line is open, another advantage of using a relay.

Makes sense. I have plenty of grit sometimes, too.

i

Interesting. I thought that sump pumps would not produce enough pressure to run through the torch leads etc.

i

Nobody has yet commented on the appropriateness of a carbonator pump for this application -

I think it's a bad idea - carbonator pumps are high speed vane pumps, (they're not positive displacement but they get unhappy (and hot enough to boil the water in them) when throttled down...) And generally use a

1/4 or 1/3 HP motor - noisy and consume a lot of power.

For as little flow and pressure as you'll need, a pump from a garden fountain should be fine - probably cheaper, too if you're buying one new.

Carla

Well, my pump would be turned on by a relay when the welding machine opens the water valve. I have a relay contact for that, on the machine. Hence, it would run intermittently (when I am welding), and would not operate with closed off flow.

I am not sure about the needed pressure. It needs to push water through what looks like 50 feet of 3/16" line on the torch, plus through the tiny channels on the torch itself, at a high enough rate.

That seems to require a lot of pressure.

i

Carbonator pumps ARE what are used for Tig coolers by many manufactures.

Bernard for example uses Procon carbonator pumps in all their chillers. They have a bybass valve for pressure relief

Lincolns Magnum line uses a Sureflo diaphram pump, but it too has a bypass valve for pressure relief.

Garden pumps are "high" volume, low pressure. When you pump water through a tiny 1/8" hose..you need pressure to be sure that a simple kink doesnt cause your torch to melt down. 60lPSI is about the normal pressure for bypass..so Bernards, for example...run up to that range in normal usage.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

That's good to know - especially if I ever get around to water cooling our TIG system.

Thanks -

Carla

Have you looked at the Bernard cooling units specifically made for TIG welders? Looks like a Procon carbonator pump to me...

I have used a carbonator pump for my TIG cooler and it was a gear pump. As Carla pointed out, it was wicked noisy. It made more noise than the fan on my Dialarc 250. Getting rid of that pump and replacing it with a nice quiet little pump was a real relief.

The carbonator pump also needed a pressure bypass valve. It would produce about 100 PSI into a torch and my Weldcraft torch is only rated at 60 PSI.

Another possibility is the Shurflow diaphram pumps. If you use a damper on them, the pressure pulsations are not objectionable. The Shurflow pumps can often be found in surplus places for $20 or $30 for a 120 volt version. They also need a pressure bypass, although I have heard that some have them built in. There are pictures of this last cooler in the dropbox.

Good Luck, Bob

I won this carbonator on ebay:

I plan to wire it using a 24V relay, so that it only would run when the welding machine opens the water valve. That would only happen between the time of preflow and postflow. I already have a phase converter

and the welder

and they are both noisy enough so that I do not have to worry about brief periods when the water valve opens.

My plan it to connect it as follows: plastic bucket -> pump ->

condensor unit for heat exchange, cooled by fan -> 1/4" hose ->

welding machine's water valve -> tig torch -> 45V11 power adaptor ->

1/4" hose -> bucket.

Does this pump (see ebay link above) have any lift?

Does it need to be primed?

Is that reservoir that's pictured of any use (would be great)?

Can I use water with antifreeze, since it gets cold in my garage in winter?

i

My TIG machine has an inline fuse that is supposed to blow when there is no water flow, however the one time it ran without water it melted the hose and didn't blow the fuse. My son turned the water on twice to be sure it was on :) Only fun thing about it is when I noticed the valve in the off position and turned it back on it hosed him down pretty good :) YMMV Glenn

I didn't know what a carbonator pump was so didn't say anything:) If it is truely that big a pump it is overkill. A swamp cooler pump would be a good choice also. They come in a 220V variety that may be handy if you want to run it from the welder. Glenn

A carbonator pump, sans the standard 1/4hp motor..will fit in half a Coke can. They are not big. I have 3 of them running on tig units. The pump themselves make little noise..the only noise being the motor turning it. And few 1/4hp motors make much sound. The fans on my chillers make more sound than any of the pump/motor combos.

Swamp cooler pumps again are volume, not pressure. If you are lucky..you may..may get 20psi out of one.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

The cylinder with the unit is an accumulator/mixer. You do know what carbonator pumps do..right?

Lift...some. Mount it on top of the 5 gallon bucket and it will self prime just fine.

Iggy...you seem to have a fascination with having all the toys turn on and off with the pedal. Im not terribly sure thats a good idea. That little motor wont cost you dick in power costs and frankly..I rather like having my torch circulating at all times rather than just when the pedal is pushed down. You are going to be starting and stopping that motor constantly. Just leave the damned thing run while the welder is running and if you simply MUST have something to complicate things..let the welders water valve do the work. Personally..on NONE of my 3 tig machines, does the water get turned on and off whenever I kick the pedal. When the machine comes on..so does the chiller. When the machine is turned off..so does the chiller.

Im a firm believer in the KISS princible. But..shrug..I also believe in Murphys Law.

btw..you see that round headed "bolt" sticking out of the bottom of the pump housing below the stub of the big hose?..thats the pressure bypass valve. If you hook your water to the water solenoid..you will be giving that valve a real work out.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

I am embarrassed to say, not really. I have no idea what they do. I know that they are pumps.

That's very good.

When humidity is appreciable, running cold water through a torch would create condensation and poor welds wil result. Welding books suggest against that, not that I am an expert.

If I use my welder's water valve and it would not let water circulate through the torch, the carbonator pump would be running against a closed valve, not so nice, I suppose. Having this thing on a relay is very easy and I do have all the relays and such. It is trivial.

Now that is a good argument. More relays and stuff, more possibility of failure.

I think that the answer depends on whether the pump is hurt by running against a closed valve. Some people said it would overheat.

Yes, I see it.

And what is the implication of that?

i

That water will be at startup..at room temperature. Not cold, unless your shop is cold. It will very soon reach warm. Seldom hot, but warm. Id think that condensation is the least of your issues. Shrug.

That water will be working the pressure relief valve, which bypasses the hose if the water valve is shut off. So it doesnt built up so much pressure it blows your hoses.

It means that sooner or later, the valve will fail. Hopefully in an open condition. That pump WILL pressure up enough to rather nicely balloon and then explode your hoses, if the water flow is obstructed and the pressure relief valve fails in the closed position. Think of it as a safety pressure regulator.

Now Im just a simple minded country boy..but Im a machine tool service tech by trade...and as such, have a great belief that things should be as uncomplicated as possible. Hence I do things as simple as possible. I dont make complicated Rollamatic door hinges on tool boxes when a simple piano hinge works just fine, nor do I build complicated control panels with multiple control relays, when a simple on/off switch will be dandy. Shrug. Do as you see fit, its your machine. I suspect we have different design philosophies

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner