Need Recommendations for ARF RC Model Airplane

And sometimes it can be cured by reducing the incidence, a favourite method is a wooden choc ice stick between the fuse and rear of wing

Trefor

This is correct.

I applaud the club's thoroughness, but I have to say that, in my experience, the best pilots often aren't the best instructors.

- Mark

Doesn't sound like it.

Like your comments which are paramount to a love-in with 4 strokes.

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And how many times have I posted the cure for "zooming" in this newsgroup over the last twelve to thirteen years do you suppose?

Problem is, when you "cured" the zooming, you also removed all of the auto stabilizing characteristics that many of you bleeding hearts insist is necessary for proper training.

I'm not an aerodynamicist, that's true. Never claimed to be. But, on the other hand, I have been trimming models for a half a decade with a fair amount of success. Including free flight, which is the true test of one's ability to trim.

A large part of the problem in argueing the advantages/disadvantages of various airfoil types in a modeling forum is that many folks are not aware of all of the little things that we modelers do just to keep our models within range to control them properly. This is one of the reasons why many folks fly with just ailerons and elevator. It has nothing to do with being lazy. It has everything to do that most of the time that we are flying, we are turning. And we are turning at steeper bank angles that full size aircraft turn.

One more thing. Let's try to make it one day without personal insults or name calling, okay? If one can't win their arguement without resorting to insults and name calling, then they didn't have a winnable arguement anyway.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate in this thread, in case no one has caught on yet. While what I'm saying is true, I'm picking on a certain type of instructor in order to get a response from them. So far, no one has taken the bait. For that I am thankful. I didn't think that any of my rec.models.rc.air friends was one of THOSE guys.

Ed Cregger

In the third paragraph, replace decade with century. Doh! I'm going back to bed.

Ed Cregger

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"The Raven" wrote

Sorry, I was unclear.

The "fiddling with" I was talking about this time was things like adjusting valve clearance.

"Tom" wrote

Internal Combustion

"Tom" wrote >> Lot's of luck Tom, I'm sure you'll have a blast!

You do not need to get a channel cleared for your use only. Most clubs do it by having each channel marked on a clothespin, and before you can turn on your radio to fly, you must have the clothespin, which means nobody else will be on the channel and cause your plane to crash.

This feature is found on expensive units, and to many people, it is a question of whether it is a needed expense.

If you are too impatient to wait for your turn to fly, it is a very good thing. :-)

When I was kid only two places, one in NYC and the other in Baltimore, offered an airframe and engine course that upon graduation the students were certified A&E mechanics. Employers were waiting in the wings to hire you if you already hadn't accepted one of the many unsolicited offers of employment the good students received prior to graduation. My plan was after graduating join the Air Force then become a candidate for OCS then become a pilot. Because of family reasons I had to move to Texas which put a real damper on my career plans. Meanwhile I was flying U-control planes of which my favorites were StuntMAster (symmetrical wing airfoil) and the Pitts Special biplane. Also, I crewed on sailboats, including race boats. I mention all of this only to say I'm very familar w/ CG, how wings work, airplane model safety.

Someone mentioned a shareware or freeware FS. Where can I d/l it? Which FS come with the NextStar Select?

Thanks, I figured that one out after posting the question.

| There's nothing wrong with a flat bottom wing.

They don't go fast efficiently. As your speed goes up (and you put your angle of attack down to keep the plane from rising), the drag goes up even more than it would with many other airfoils, because you have to fly at a negative angle of attack.

Not a big problem for a powered plane, especially one that's meant to be a trainer, but for a glider it's a big drawback, especially if there's any wind, because it makes it hard to get your speed up between thermals.

I'm not saying that flat bottom wings are bad, but there is at least one thing `wrong' with them :)

| I've been flying since 1990, and I still enjoy flat bottom wings | along with planes that are supposedly more "advanced". I like three | channel planes, too.

I concur ...

| About the radio, just get a regular 4 channel 72MHz radio for less | than $150.

Even better, if you have a friend who knows R/C gear and can help you shop, pick up something used from somebody who's going spread spectrum, and buy your low end 72 MHz radio for less. You could probably find something for $50 that works well, and for $150 you could probably get a nice computer radio that you probably won't ever outgrow.

If you're going to spend $150 for low end 72 MHz gear, you might as well spend a little more ($220 or so?) and get spread spectrum gear with a low end computer radio. A Spektrum DX6i or Futaba 6EX comes to mind.

| Your main concern will be that if somebody is nice enough to teach | you to fly, you may want to get the same brand they have and hook up | with a trainer cord.

You can get converter cables to go between most vendors, but it's certainly simpler if you stick to the same vendor.

As for what plane to get, Tom might also want to consider an electric plane line a Slow Stick. Small, very slow (so not much good in wind), much more forgiving of mistakes (but if you have an instructor, there should be no mistakes.) Not much noise or glow smell (even though I mostly fly gliders and a few electrics now, I still love the smell of glow. Don't love the mess, however.)

Incidentally, neither of these planes has a flat bottom airfoil, in case you're interested. But they both will fly slow so you can learn to handle an airplane, like you do in a full scale Cessna 150.

Some other really good ARF trainers:

You could also get any of these planes with no engine and buy a 4 stroke instead if you want to. It's just a matter of budget.

Here are some thoughts to keep in mind. Most guys who don't quit right away end up with lots of different planes, radios and engines after a few years. If you stick with it you'll have extras of everything, so don't think you have to get exactly the right gear the first time out. Keep in mind that you may already be planning your next three planes, but three planes from now your plans will likely have changed.

I've been doing this for almost 20 years and taught about a dozen people to fly. It's really not as hard as some people would like you to believe. If you want to do it, you can. Regarding equipment, I have a collection of cheap radios, a box of servos and receivers of various sizes, and dozens of engines that get installed on different planes as they come and go. The basic four channel airplane is what most people fly 90% of the time, and it doesn't hurt my feelings a bit to install cheap four channel radios in them. Maybe you'll build some really cool scale project some day with flaps and retracts and use a six channel radio. While you're building it you'll probably be flying various four channel airplanes that don't require anything more than a cheap four channel radio. I noticed that you mentioned biplanes, which is something that I've always loved, too. I guarantee you don't need anything fancy for a biplane, and unless it's a high speed precision aerobatics type, you won't be able to tell the difference between plastic bushings and ball bearings in your servos.

I'm not trying to twist your arm or anything. You don't have to do things my way, but remember that you don't have to go out and spend $850 for all the best gear your first time out either. Have fun.

Robbie

I like Robert's answer a bunch and wholeheartedly second his opinions. I think any of the planes he points out are good choices for someone who wants to get into the hobby. I especially like the Hobbistar 60, because its bigger an easier to see. It also will allow you to "play" with its capabilities a bunch, but the Avistar will allow that, too.

Harlan

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My mission is accomplished. I got some folks to write that probably wouldn't have responded to this article. That was my goal. You have to be a little controversial in order to drag some of these folks out of their dark closets.

No, you don't need a fancy radio to begin flight training. But you would save money in the long run if you bought a nice computer radio to begin with. After all, the transmitter stays on the ground, so regardless of the number of crashes that your model experiences, your TX is going to remain in good condition, barring any hanger rash type of accidents.

Do you have to have ball bearing servos? Of course not. But if you spent the extra money and bought the cheapest ball bearing servos, I guarantee that you would enjoy your model more than if you had bought the plastic bushing servos that are bottom of the line.

An excellent transmitter, coupled with an adequate flight pack is a good way to go. I'd buy a used 72 MHz transmitter that is computer based and with at least eight or nine channel capability. Then I would buy a cheap flight pack that matches the transmitter's frequency and shift. Most computer transmitters can be converted to 2.4 GHz with the replacement of the Tx module at a later date. I run 72 MHz, 50 MHz and 2.4 MHz with my old JR X347 Tx, my JR 8103 and my JR 9303 transmitters. You have that capability when you get a computer based transmitter because they use Tx modules to determine the band and frequency.

It's been fun.

Ed Cregger

Yeah, Ed, I think your logic is sound. Its just that if a guy is in the position where he HAS to save a few bucks on his initial equipment, a four channel Tx and cheaper servos aren't all that bad. I try to have that kind of stuff on hand for those just starting out in the hobby. If I see a good used outfit that I can pick up for a good price and pass along the saving to a person who is interested in entry level equipment, I can usually get him into the plane, Tx, Rx and servos for less than $200 and sometimes less. Of course some of the other stuff is extra, but I usually have those things available fairly inexpensively, too. I probably have too much stuff at the moment, but I just love it when a new person shows up at the field with equipment that I sold him for a very good price. Usually its a new flyer, a new club member and another smiling face.

As for the modules, I find that its a great way to get into 2.4 GHz equipment. I bought my 9CAP and Hitec Eclipse fairly cheaply when their previous owners decided to go dedicated 2.4GHz rather than go with the module. I have the capability to fly on any channel that is open or 2.4Ghz with the 9CAP and any channel with the Eclipse. I'll shortly be getting a

Harlan

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Each of us judges the world and others by our own experiences. I don't argue with folks. I just state my viewpoint and then move on.

I've been flying R/C and model airplanes in general for a long, long time. I have decades of experiences. Does that make me correct? Not at all. I've seen some real goof balls that had decades of experience and I've had to argue with them back when I was in club politics and either club president or on the board of directors. Their reasoning was often flawed, costing their student pilots money that truly did not need to be spent. Many times their suggestions for rules were absolutely ridiculous to most folks. But they had the right to be heard and their suggestions taken seriously. Others dismissed such folks out of hand. They never had their say, which I thought was wrong.

Ever run into folks that will only fly plain bearing engines? I have. Or folks that will not own a computer radio? I have. How about folks that will never buy anything that is new? If they could find a way to buy used fuel, they would!

It takes all kinds to make a world. I have always fought for folks to have the right to be different, as long as they were reasonably safe. I'm not putting anyone down now for their behavior of choice. I kind of visit different areas of interest and different modeling philosophies quite often. One side of me loves classic pattern. Another side of me is an ardent Telemaster fan. I even own a few helicopters and RTF electric models. I'm on a giant scale kick at the moment. Who knows what I'll be into next week? I don't.

The fact that you disagree with me is fine. I do appreciate you presenting your point of view, even when it disagrees with mine. We put the info, our opinions, out there for the readers to evaluate. That is as it should be.

Ed Cregger