OT. Global warming - was differential tempererd....



I too am (or was) a sceptic but I recently attended a talk about the subject (a little over an hour long) and it became clear in the first couple of minutes that the guy certainly knew his science, he mentioned later that he was a former weather forecaster.
He explained, at some length, the various natural cycles that affect the earth's temperature - the eccentricity of the earths orbit about the sun and the way it changes, the shift in polar tilt and the Earth's wobble, sunspot activity and varying output from the sun, and a few others I can't remember, and pointed out that "global warming" and "climate change" were two separate issues. He gave quite a few facts and figures and I wish I had taken some notes but apparently, 700 years ago, (I think that was the figure) the earth was two degrees warmer than it is now.
I was very impressed by the way he gave his talk without any apparent bias leaving us to make our own minds up about the subject.
Apparently what is worrying scientists is not the temperature changes themselves, which might be expected, but the /rate/ of change.
Now, whether you believe it or not, fossil fuels are a finite resource and it makes a lot of sense to me to reduce our rate of consumption but, personally, I favour nuclear rather than all this ugly "windmills" they seem to be building all over the UK.
--
Stuart Winsor

For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
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Can you give us the name of the forecaster? Maybe we can find part of his lecture on the internet.
Henry
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[unlurk]
Okay, sorry, but- am I seriously seeing a bunch of dudes who /burn coal/ (or other hydrocarbons) for fun and profit talking about anthropogenic global warming? I realize global blacksmithing contributions are, if anything, a drop in the bucket, but come on, doesn't anyone else see the inherent silliness here? Carbon footprint, nothing; we're making carbon snow angels.
That said, I approve of reducing the use of fossil fuels by others; the more left for us to make metal hot and flat, the better.
[relurk]
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wrote:

Good one!
While I suspect that you wrote in jest I suspect that you are actually describing the attitude of moat of the worlds inhabitants -- anything is good....."If it doesn't disturb me."
Years ago, before the California Clean Air Law I was a PTA meeting and a discussion was started about the smog in the L.A. basin. I stated that I knew how to solve the problem and everyone thought I was a great guy... until they asked how my plan would work and I told them that the answer was to apply a $10,000 tax on the second or more vehicles, in any single family. I thought they were going to lynch me - "we need two cars!"
Of course, everyone wanted to eliminate the smog, but nobody wanted to eliminate the cause.
Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
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Bruce,
Sorry to burst your bubble. Back in the 1980's is was known in California, in Silicon Valley where I lived, anyway, that smog levels follow a week or two behind rainfall. The Los Angeles basin had smog in it back when the first Spanish arrived, and commented on the bitter, brownish fog.
And if you want to reduce smog contributions from cars - enforce a mandatory 200 foot following distance. The laws are on the books. Stopped, waiting for a light, waiting for the next guy, or changing lanes - keep that separation, and your density of particulates, acids, etc. goes down and stays down. You even end stop-and-go traffic jams - the real reason cars contribute so much to lowered air quality in grid-locked LA. Just ticket every driver that approaches closer than 200 feet (100 feet where the posted speed limit is under 45mph). Even stopped - when in the road way, where does any driver get the idea he/ she should be closer than legal safe following distance? Some cities have made it illegal to enter an intersection if there isn't room on the outbound lane for your vehicle. Enforcement shouldn't be a problem. Pull the patrol car to the back of stopped traffic, step off separations, and ticket cars that are too close.
Tozetre,
I wonder - I have heard about heating homes with shelled field corn - could that be made to work in a forge?
And I see a difference between what an individual smith, or any 100 smiths, can burn or consume in a day, and what any mid-sized power plant burns in an hour. Yes, the power plant is regulated, you loose energy efficiency to control particulates and other wastes there. But the volume of actual carbon - how do you compare the carbon a smith burns, to the fields routinely burned off in Oklahoma, to control weeds? Or any wild fire, or house fire, etc.
I don't see any chance that American homes will change over to coal. Charcoal, now, like Asia is doing, and in Africa, denuding forests to produce home heating and cooking fuel, now that might happen, locally. Or just burning the raw wood, with little attempt to manage wood wastes (other than letting it dry .. sometimes), that may well come to be. I don't see burning coal at the individual craft or home level to be anything greater than a local nuisance problem. Or maybe a problem getting your hands on supplies of good, workable fuel.
On Sep 20, 5:08 am, Bruce in Bangkok

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wrote:

I lived in the L.A. area in the late 60's and 70's and I never heard your assertion, although the geological construction of the L.A. basin certainly results in a stagnant atmosphere.
It was certainly was accepted as fact when I lived in th L.A. area that smog was a result of the automobile population. Thus the justification for the clean air laws.
Given that rain in L.A. county is rather rare your story seems strange, to say the least.
I quote from http://www.arb.ca.gov/html/brochure/history.htm and it is probably the most definitive record of atmosphere pollution I have seen.
1943     First recognized episodes of smog occur in Los Angeles in the summer of 1943. Visibility is only three blocks and people suffer from smarting eyes, respiratory discomfort, nausea, and vomiting. The phenomenon is termed a "gas attack" and blamed on a nearby butadiene plant. The situation does not improve when the plant is shut down.
Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
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I lived in Austin and often flew into LA due to the company in Mason St. and other places in Sana Ana... the Air was so thick we would land and the street lights were on but at about that level I could see ground. LA had people burning some of their trash - making them do that.... LA had a ton of dirty buses and tons of trucks - I10 and I5 etc... IBM had developed a traffic control program to help out and scheduled its plant on move into the gates on 15 minutes time scale. Just think about getting to work within 15 minutes and that is what happened.
They did in fact clean up a lot. It is much much cleaner now on the worst days.
I think it a shame that the big dig out there almost goes unused.
Such is life.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com /
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

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In article

No, I'm sorry, I can't. It was given when he was introduced but I cannot remember.

I think that very unlikely though it would be nice if it were so.
I am a member of a Probus club, which in the UK is an organisation for retired professional and business people. Every month we have a guest speaker and he was one of them. If I remember, I could ask our speaker secretary at the next meeting for the guy's name.
Stuart
--
Stuart Winsor

For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
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Please do ask your secretary. I will be watching for a reply in this thread or a new thread with your name and a subject similar to this one.
Thanks, Henry
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Next meeting will be the second Tuesday in September. (We always meet the second Tuesday of the month)
--
Stuart Winsor

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In article

As I didn't make the October meeting due to other commitments I will see if I can catch up with the guy in November.
--
Stuart Winsor

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Thanks for letting me know.
Henry
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In article

The gentleman's name is Ken Ingamells.
I do have his contact details but don't wish to publish then on a public group.
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Thanks Stuart, I can do searches on the internet. Eventually his name may show up.
By the way I completely forgot about this thread, thanks for remembering.
Henry
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In article

I had asked our talks secretary several times and he had promised to email me the name but never did. However, the guy was back with us yesterday giving a talk about Shackleton, the polar explorer, so I was able to speak to him in person.
Aparantly he spent some time as resident weather forcaster on South Georgia, a regular staging point used by polar explorers on their way south. Shackleton found help and rescue by making it back there after the end of his ill fated expidition.
Stuart
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