Increasing strength of steel through rolling

I have a need to make 2"x1" steel blanks, .020-.030" thick. The problem is that they need to be very resistant to taking a bend, so I
need to increase their strength. Additionally, one edge (1" long) will need to be hardened as it will be a cutting edge.
I could likely harden the blanks using heat treatment, but this is a PITA at the best of times due to warping issues. Flatness is important. I will likely heat treat the edge to get a good cutting edge.
I'm considering rolling thicker stock down to achieve increased strength through work-hardening. This would be done cold, and under power. I would consider making the rolling mill myself, or purchasing one if they're available (more time than money these days).
Does anyone have reference material which states the highest possible strength available through work-hardening of various hardenable steels, as well as the thickness reduction percentage required to achieve this state?
I'm thinking of O1, W1 or a four-thousand-series alloy steel.
Additionally, is there reference material available for the forces required (both torque, and clamping) to reduce thicknesses of materials at certain hardness? Looking for toolmakers' rules of thumb.
I've done a lot of shop-floor draw work, but I've never worked with rolling mills.
Thanks for any thoughts or recommendations. I'll likely poke around in Machinery's Handbook, but I'm also interested in first-hand experience.
Regards,
Robin
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Try induction-hardening for the edge?
Flash

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Robin S. wrote:

Robin:
    You can buy A-2, D-2, 0-1, etc., sheet stock in .030 thickness. Saw out your parts, machine the edges, have it heat treated. A-2 doesn't move much on heat treatment.     What you suggest might very well work, but beyond the learning experience, why go to the expense and trouble?
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BottleBob wrote:

Bob, Nice to see a post from you. Robin is Canadian, he likes to struggle. :)
Robin, I concur with Bob. If flatness is an issue you can get it heat treated between plates.
Best to you both, Steve
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Steve Saling
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I thought about that originally. Wasn't sure if that would do anything for the flatness (potato chip once the plates open). Have you seen this work? Neat idea for sure.
Regards,
Robin
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I have had things annealed between plates, but not heat treated. I would think it would be feasible. Quenching might be the stumbling block.
How about something like 17-4 that hardens at a relatively low temp?
Best, Steve
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Steve Saling
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wrote:

I thought about that originally. Wasn't sure if that would do anything for the flatness (potato chip once the plates open). Have you seen this work? Neat idea for sure.
Regards,
Robin
========================================== I'm sure you realize that if you work-harden the piece overall, and then heat-treat the edge, you're going to have three zones: the hard heat-treated zone, a fairly hard cold-worked zone, and a very soft heat-affected zone in between the two. The size and nature of that zone will depend on how you heat-treat the edge.
In any case, you're going to have some hellacious stresses there, just from the different densities of martensite and ferrite, no matter how narrow you can make that zone to be. It ought to warp like hell.
If you're going to heat-treat it, you're better off heat treating the whole thing, IMO. If you're going to work-harden it, just work-harden it.
I say this assuming I didn't miss something along the way, in which case I might be misleading you. But if I didn't miss anything, then I'm not.
-- Ed Huntress
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GarlicDude wrote:

Steve:
    I've always liked Robin, and thought an answer to his question might be helpful. Wasn't that what this newsgroup used to be all about?

    Heh, it seems his quantities are too high for my suggestions to be of much use. I thought the razor blade manufacturing idea was a good one.
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BottleBob wrote:

I like Robin also. Yes, helping was and should be the reason for the group. Things have sunk pretty low as of late, but things also have a way of coming full circle.
We can hope.

As was the band saw blade stock and a few of the others.
Best, Steve
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Robin S. wrote:

Robin:
    If you're worried about the parts turning into potato chips after heat treating... make them thicker, heat treat 'em, have them double disk ground, then grind your cutting edge on them.
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I should have mentioned that production quantities could be in the bazillions so cold processing the parts to a good surface finish/ flatness without secondary operations is a necessity.
Thanks for the suggestion though. You'd be bang on if I was only making a handful.
Regards,
Robin
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Robin, maybe you can find out what the razor blade people are using for raw stock?
Best, Steve
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Steve Saling
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That's an excellent idea as well. Very similar application.
Just looked on Google. I'll have to do a more in-depth crawl tomorrow. A fair amount of junk. I get the feeling these are guarded processes...
Regards,
Robin
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wrote:

That's an excellent idea as well. Very similar application.
Just looked on Google. I'll have to do a more in-depth crawl tomorrow. A fair amount of junk. I get the feeling these are guarded processes...
Regards,
Robin
================================================== If Gillette is still doing what they did when they were my customer, their steel stock is a custom alloy and they'll cut the dick off of anybody who makes it public. It says so right in their contracts. d8-)
-- Ed Huntress
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Ed Huntress wrote:

Ed, I had a customer that needed to sharpen some blade stock for arthroscopy balloons and tried to find out how the razor folks did their sharpening. It's as you said, a closely guarded secret. I didn't realize that the steel was a trade secret also.
Best, Steve
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wrote:

There was an episode on the History channel on cutting tools and razor blades was one segment. maybe the History channel on line has the episode. look for cutting or sharp things. I forget the exact name of the show.
Thank You, Randy
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Modern Marvels, episode 487 - "World's Sharpest". I can't find any clips or downloads for that episode unfortunately. Now you've got me drooling :)
Regards,
Robin
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On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:51:42 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Sci. Channel
"How Its Made"
"Scalpels, Oil Paints, British Police Helmets & Ice Axels"
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wrote:

Whether it was on that program or not, one "documentary" showed double-edged razor blades being made from continuous rolls of stock.
The blades were only seperated when it was time for encapsulation/packaging.
Everything else was done to them while they were still attached to each other.
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On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:21:10 -0700 (PDT), "Robin S."

The ASM Metals Handbook indicates that .60% to 1.00% carbon steel can be cold worked up to around 150 ksi tensile by drawing to a 80% to 100% reduction in area. Whether this is practical by rolling is another matter. I'm sure there are rules of thumb for the forces and power for rolling, but I'm not sure where to go to find them. If you want to run the numbers yourself a good place to start would be googling "hertzian contact stress."
I have done some work on hot rolling mill design, working at temps where the materials' yield was down around perhaps 20 ksi. One mill was rolling bars about 5/8" diameter. Each stand required around 100HP and must have weighed 2 tons. And since you're deforming the material and introducing lots of internal stresses, it's not easy to maintain flatness while rolling. Levelling or straightening is generally a separate operation.
--
Ned Simmons

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