Fairness of the Electoral College

Let's say that a certain voter is a Obama supporter in Utah, or Romney supporter in Illinois.
This hypothetical voter would have no chance whatsoever, of his
candidate winning in his state and, therefore, his vote has no value whatsoever. It is, more or less, throwaway.
In a national vote, everyone's ballot counts equally.
I think that this is somewhat unfair, not yet sure how unfair, but it feels wrong.
i
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On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 00:05:45 -0600, Ignoramus5113

============For my take on this see my comment at http://go.bloomberg.com/political-capital/2012-11-02/rahm-emanuels-ohio-problem/#comment-700661891 <snip> The problem is that the electoral college is doing exactly what it was designed to do, namely prevent the large population states with grossly over-sized urban areas from totally dominating the presidential elections and running rough shod over the "fly over states." <snip>
--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
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On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 00:23:35 -0600, F. George McDuffee

http://www.examiner.com/article/do-liberals-really-want-a-second-civil-war-america
Do liberals really want a second civil war in America?
Civil War September 4, 2011 By: Joe Newby
A blog post at the Tea Party Nation website by a former intelligence officer asks if America is headed for another Civil War.
Wondering "if 2008 is the last peaceful American presidential election" he will have witnessed, Ron Miller asks, "To what lengths will people go to ensure President Obama is reelected?
Citing the recent violent rhetoric by irresponsible members of the Congressional Black Caucus, Miller wonders if "agigation to the point of violence" will be "the Democrats strategy for victory in 2012."
I look around me and, like a geologist measuring the warning signs of an impending volcanic eruption, Im disturbed and wondering if anyone else is picking up on the signs of disaster.
The incendiary words of the Congressional Black Caucus during their jobs tour were the rhetorical equivalent of throwing a lighted match in a tinderbox.
Unfortunately, it's not just the violent rhetoric of the Congressional Black Caucus that should have Americans concerned.
Earlier in 2011, union activists - aided and abetted by the President's own campaign arm Organizing for America - descended on the capitol of the state of Wisconsin in what can only be described as an insurrection, an attempted coup d'etat, over a budget repair bill designed to make that state solvent.
In the days and weeks that followed, Republican lawmakers, along with their families and staff, were subjected to bullying, harassment and death threats.
Wealthy filmmaker Michael Moore called for revolution, as did the Rev. Jesse Jackson. Appearing on MSNBC's Rachel Maddow program, Moore said:
I just want to say, anybody who lives within driving distance of Madison, Wisc., right now should make their way to the capital. I would love to see thousands of people there right now, there in that capital building, in the rotunda, out on the lawn, whatever it takes. I mean, really, this is really, this is war. This is a class war that's been leveled against the working people of this country and at some point people are going to just have to stand up and say, non-violently, this is enough. We're not taking it anymore.
In Feb, Democratic Congressman Mike Capuano (D-MA) raised the stakes when he encouraged unions to "get a little bloody":
Im proud to be here with people who understand that its more than just sending an email to get you going. Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary, Rep. Mike Capuano (D-Ma.) told a crowd in Boston on Tuesday rallying in solidarity for Wisconsin union members.
In March, a Wisconsin Democrat issued a profanity laced death threat against a female GOP colleague on the floor of the Wisconsin Assembly.
Unions took their act on the road in an attempt to spread violence and discontent across the country. The result was predictable - violence was visited on average Americans by union thugs standing "in solidarity" with the protesters in Wisconsin.
Even the Vice Chairman of the Communist Party USA was surprised at the level of radicalization shown by Wisconsin Democrats and their union allies.
I have to tell you that in every one of the situations that Ive been in in Madison and Indianapolis, there is a radicalization going on among Democratic legislators that Ive never seen in my lifetime and I dont think any of us have, said Scott Marshall, Vice Chairman of the Communist Party USA.
The violence was not contained to America's streets. Unhinged liberals have used the social networking site Twitter to call for the death of Sarah Palin, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, and businessman Donald Trump.
Does the far left really want a violent revolution - a second civil war - in America?
Consider their own words.
In November 2010, a Socialist conference in New York advocated violence against members of the Tea Party:
In times of growth historically the Democrats were the party that wanted to at least mildly redistribute a little bit of wealth. They were willing to finance a few social programs, make a few concessions in the interest of preserving social peace and social stability. But now when they don't feel like that money is available for them to distribute, they don't do anything. And I think that, you know, we all want to raise people's consciousness but we also want to fight people, right? So I think it's like both things. And, you know, we want to, we want to fight people who are on the -- who have signed up on the other side of the barricade who are fighting us, we have to fight them. This is -- we're a militant organization when it comes to the fight against gay bigotry, the fights against racism and sexism. The labor movement has this old saying, and I don't know if you want to take it -- is if you can't open their minds, open their heads.
Ed Morrissey of the conservative blog Hot Air posted an excerpt from a book by left wing cartoonist Ted Rall calling for open revolution and violence in the streets:
We are here because the U.S. is going to end soon. Theres going to be an intense, violent, probably haphazard struggle for control. Its going to come down to us versus them. The question is: What are you going to do about it?
Christian fundamentalists, the millennial end-of-theworlders obsessed with the Left Behind series about the End Times, neo-Nazi racists, rural black-helicopter Michigan Militia types cut from the same inbred cloth as Timothy McVeigh, allied with mainstream gun nuts and right-wing Republicans, have been planning, preparing, and praying for the destruction of the Godless, secular United States for decades. In the past, they formed groups like the John Birch Society and the Aryan Nations. Now the hard Right has a postmodern, decentralized non-organization organization called the Tea Party.
Right-wing organizational names change, but they amount to the same thing: the reactionary sociopolitical forcethe sole forcepoised to fill the vacuum when collapse occurs. The scenario outlined by Margaret Atwoods prescient novel The Handmaids Talerednecks in the trenches, hard military men running things, minorities and liberals taken away and massacred, setting the stage for an even more extreme form of laissez-faire corporate capitalism than were suffering under todayis a fair guess of how a post-U.S. scenario will play out unless we prepare to turn it in another direction
A war is coming. At stake: our lives, the planet, freedom, living. The government, the corporations, and the extreme right are prepared to coalesce into an Axis of Evil. Are you going to fight back? Will you do whatever it takes, including taking up arms?
Last November, Rall discussed his book with MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan. Ratigan opened the segment by asking:
"Are things in our country so bad that it might actually be time for a revolution?" Ratigan asked. "The answer obviously is yes," he added, and "the only question is how to do it."
In April, the radical left wing group PSL called for revolution, and suggested recruiting children to further their cause.
One thing has become increasingly clear - the radical left is prone to violence, and they will not stop until they have achieved their goal - a socialist America ruled by Marxist thugs.
We live in a dream world if we think it cannot happen here.
Miller notes:
I assure you that not every black person in America subscribes to their frenzied threats of another civil war driven by race and class. All Americans of good will must come together and stand against intimidation, threats and violence in this political season, wherever and against whomever they may occur.
It should also be noted that not every liberal stands shoulder to shoulder with those calling for blood in the streets. Kirsten Powers, for example, has often called on her fellow liberals to tone the rhetoric down. Unfortunately, her calls for civility have fallen on deaf ears.
Miller provides conservatives a reasonable response to the left:
We can stand together against those who would stir the discontent of others into hatred. The demagogues and race merchants are declaring war on everyday Americans who do not wish them ill, but we will not stand idly by and allow them to set our nation aflame. We will confront violence with respect for the rule of law, and agitation with solidarity that reaches across racial boundaries.
He concludes:
Proverbs 25:21-22 says, If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the LORD will reward you. We will answer their campaign of hate with a response of love, and their consciences will burn with shame, even if they are too prideful to admit it.
We can no longer afford to be complacent about such matters. If conservatives do not recognize the dangers posed by the radical left in this country, America could very easily fall into another civil war - and the end result will not be pretty."
Its my opinion, take it for what its worth..that the Second American Revolution just started.
Shrug
Gunner
--
"President Obama is not going to lose. He will be re-elected. It is those of
you who have these grand fantasies of that pip-squeak Romney actually having
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Gunner wrote:

Hey those guys are stealing your narrative maybe you can sue them for copyright violation
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On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 00:05:45 -0600, Ignoramus5113

So you would be comfortable with the voters of say..Indiana voting to kill all the Democrats in the state?
It would be a popular vote.
Gunner
--
"President Obama is not going to lose. He will be re-elected. It is those of
you who have these grand fantasies of that pip-squeak Romney actually having
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On 11/7/2012 1:05 AM, Ignoramus5113 wrote:

The popular vote still is powerful by showing that the elected either has a "mandate" or not. (political capital) In a close race the elected has to be somewhat considerate of the other party. The three branches of government with it's checks and balances sure is an interesting concept, isn't it?
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That's a great concept, I am glad that we have it.
i
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I agree completely - I've come to the same conclusions myself.
However, the electoral college is still fixable and workable, without constitutional change. That is because it is up to the _states_ how they cast their electoral votes. By simply changing from winner-takes-all to proportional allocation, ballots would count equally and fairness would be restored.
A couple of states do this now, but they're small and inconsequential. Also, the solidly blue or red states are unlikely to change and give up their monopoly - a vivid case of the majority submerging the minority's voice. The swing states have the best chance of doing it, but political greed would make it difficult (i.e., the parties would rather have a shot at all the votes than be assured of 1/2 of them).
But, if you're going to change the constitution, do it right: eliminate the college and go to a parliamentary type system, with Congress choosing the President.
Bob
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Ignoramus5113 wrote:

The EC is a broken relic that had some rational legitimacy many years ago before instant cross country communications. It needs to go.
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pretty much.
we have these weird tax fraud zones in Chicago called "TIF zones".
I've been asking for years what they're for and how they should work and nobody has ever come close to having a rational explantion of why they exist.
That there is proof they need to be eliminated.
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