Ground tester or Hypot with 1/0 welding cable?

I have two devices that left me completely stumped. They are Associated Research made devices. One seems to be a high voltage hypot
tester. Another has 1/0 welding cable attached to it. At least one is called HyJoule.
Anyway, I am lost as to just what could be tested with a 1/0 welding cable (about 100 ft or so).
They are both the size of a under the desk refrigerator and VERY heavy, maybe 200-300 lbs each.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:41:16 +0000 (UTC), in sci.electronics.design

sell it on ebay as audiophool speaker cable
martin
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

actually... welding cable is the easiest thing to sell on ebay...
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Possibly for insulation breakdown testing.
Ignoramus30170 wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

But what about the welding cable. Why would it be needed. yes, the 30 kV machine is for insulation, but what abonut the one with welding cable attached.
i

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I took half of it off my truck last night. (it comes in two pieces).
It has about 200 feet of 1/0 welding cable. One 100 ft piece and more smaller pieces, with weird connectors. The use of this cable is to securely ground this set, as it is apparently unsafe when not grounded.
One cabinet is the high voltage power supply, going up to 20 kV DC. It has a twistlock 120V plug, I am not sure what is the amp rating on this machine.
The other cabinet (still in my truck) is the THUMPER unit, that is, a big capacitor and means to discharge it into the object being tested.
There is at least one HV cable that goes from thumper to power supply (to charge the caps in thumper). and a long HV cable that, I think, connects to the cable being tested for faults.
Associated research no longer supports this unit, has no manuals and no old people to remember anything about it. Another victim of corporate buyouts, outsourcings, downsizings etc.
I will try to find out what is the power rating.
I will try to test it the following way:
- ground the unit securely to my house grounding rod
- run it off the generator to prevent interference with the house electrical system
- Connect leads of THUMPER to some thin wire, like 18 gauge wire, so that it would safely explode when THUMPED.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ignoramus30170 wrote:

HyPot tester tests insulation resistance/breakdown, the joule-o-matic tester passes a high current through a safety device to make sure it actually passes the current properly.
Think like testing a surge protecter. The current (actually energy, therefore joules) rating on reg. surge protected outlet strips are pretty good.
lots of stuff has to pass hi-pot testing before it goes out the door, I've never seen something that had to have the currrent test.
Dave
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Maybe you have seen it; a 200 kAmp lightning strike simulator is part of the final checkout on big aircraft designs, I'm told.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ignoramus30170 wrote:

Think HV switch gear, like a substation. My dad helped build an electric foundry, they had to do extensive tests on all the incoming hookups. Big switch gear takes big test equipment.
Stan
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Stan, good idea. I think that I understand now, the device with the welding cable is a device for testing circuit breakers.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:28:07 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus30170

That was wrong. after some research and thinking, here's what I think.
1. The high voltage device is both a hipot tester (delivering a little bit of high voltage to test withstand voltages on insulation), as well as a "thumper". A "thumper" is a machine with big high voltage capacitors that delivers a pulse of high voltage energy to whatever. A similar (but bigger) machine can be seen here:
http://www.hipotronics.com/fieldtest/fldtst13.htm
2. The low voltage device with 1/0 welding cable is a ground bond tester that tests ground bond by exposing it to a huge current.
3. The thumper can possibly be used to compress beer cans and make mini lightnings.
I will post an update if I find the above to be wrong.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

You can find the location of a short in one of those realy big power cables by laying it out and covering it with sand then thumping it with a lot of current, the current cuases the cable to jump and throw the sand up, where the sand stops being thrown up is the location of the fualt.
Colin =^.^
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
colin wrote:

They use these things for locating faults in buried cables. It is not necessary to lay out the cable and cover it with anything (assuming an unburied cable) because the arc at the fault location will sound like a rifle shot (or worse).
Back when I used to run one of these for the local power company, the standard method for locating the fault was to start up the thumper, which has about a 5 second cycle, and start walking slowly along the route of the cable. The 'thump' can be felt faintly through your feet or heard by using a piece of conduit as a stethoscope. This will work for cables that are up to several thousand feet in length.
One of our linemen always brought his dog to work with him in the truck. The dog had been on so many underground repair jobs that, as soon as the thumper was started, he would take off running to the fault location and bark at it when he arrived. That saved us quite a bit of time.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto: snipped-for-privacy@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Paul, can you share some ideas about operating this thumper. such as should I ground it to my house ground rod, and how can I test its thumping function without spreading polonium everywhere or otherwise getting myself or our electrical system in trouble. Obviously I would not want to thump my house wiring.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ignoramus30897 wrote:

It obviously puts out a fairly substantial current pulse. Why would you risk connecting it to your house ground rod? If it requires a ground, why not drive a ground rod away from your house and any buried utilities?
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- &
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ignoramus30897 wrote:

First of all, we never operated our thumper without lineman's insulating gloves.
I'd suggest that you don't fiddle with it at all. But if you must, drive a separate ground rod, away from your house. There should be a grounding lug on the thumper. Connect that to your ground rod with a #4 stranded Cu conductor.
Make a spark gap out of two pointed metal rods, spaced about 1/8" apart mounted on some suitable insulating material. Connect one side of this gap to the thumper HV lead. Connect the other side of the gap back to the thumper grounding lug with its own lead (not the one to the ground rod). Turn the thumper's voltage control to minimum. Put on your lineman's gloves, Plug the thumper's 120VAC cord into an isolated source, such as a portable generator. Turn the thumper on and very slowly* increase the voltage setting until the gap starts to flash over. *Don't be impatient. The contactor in the thumper connects the internal cap. to the output only periodically, so if you crank it up fast, it won't discharge until the contactor closes anyway.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto: snipped-for-privacy@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Paul, thank you. I unloaded it, connected the two parts (ground, HV, and control cable) and experimented a little bit.
All the while I controlled it with a wooden board, never touched it with my hands while it was on.
It powers up.
It does not show any DC voltage on the meter.
There is a tiny popup breaker in the back of the power supply. When I tried to depress it (using that wooden board), the GFCI interrupted electricity. I decided to wait for a drier day when I can run it off my generator and can see everything in daylight etc.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ignoramus30897 wrote:

[snip]
There is some sort of fault between the input and ground. Don't use this thing until you have repaired it.
If the fault is in the HV transformer, you might have a situation where the HV will get back into the 120V side. That's the reason for using a stand alone generator (to keep from killing people in your or your neighbor's house). With a generator feeding this beast, odds are only you will die.
I used to have links to some nice(?) photos of HV electrical burns, but I've misplaced them. Perhaps someone else can post them in this thread.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto: snipped-for-privacy@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Scary stuff. I bought a ground rod at Home depot today. it is 10 feet long. should I use all 10 feet oor can I get away with a shorter rod? my soil is clay.
Also, has anyone tried using an air hammer to beat in the ground rod.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Paul, a grounding question. I have a basketball hoop in my yard that is held by a 4x4 steel square tubing (really big square tubing). It was installed by previous owners. I suppose that it is held in the ground by concrete poured around the 4x4 steel tubing.
Can I use that as a ground for the thumper?
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.