Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K floor jack. They're pictured at
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg
None of the tools in my collection has any chance of holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool that will get them off? It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal. Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine. Thanks for looking, and any guidance! bob prohaska
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On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:15:40 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:

I couldn't load the first picture, but the second one looks like you could use a flat bar - there's nothing there for scale, so maybe even a flat-blad e screwdriver would work - against both open ends at once. Push the clip ba ck far enough to slip something (a pick, perhaps) between the pin and the c losed side of the clip.
If a flat bar pressing against both ends doesn't move the clip far enough, you could notch the bar to clear the pin while still pushing on the clip.
Good luck.
jpb
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On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:49:40 PM UTC-4, rangerssuck wrote:

d use a flat bar - there's nothing there for scale, so maybe even a flat-bl ade screwdriver would work - against both open ends at once. Push the clip back far enough to slip something (a pick, perhaps) between the pin and the closed side of the clip.

, you could notch the bar to clear the pin while still pushing on the clip.

OK, the wheel picture finally loaded and it looks like that snap ring won't just push off. So, I agree with Jim - make a wedge or rounded-end tool, pu sh it into the space, and voila! But it also looks like fairly ordinary sna p ring pliers could be ground to fit into that space. with something like t hese https://goo.gl/2ZPHzP you can grind just the tips to suit.
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On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:49:40 PM UTC-4, rangerssuck wrote:

OK, the wheel picture finally loaded and it looks like that snap ring won't just push off. So, I agree with Jim - make a wedge or rounded-end tool, push it into the space, and voila! But it also looks like fairly ordinary snap ring pliers could be ground to fit into that space. with something like these https://goo.gl/2ZPHzP you can grind just the tips to suit.
============= That might work with better pliers than mine. Custom bits that don't fit the hex grooves pop out too easily. -jsw
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:49:35 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck

It looks like it could be driven far enough off of the shaft with a big screwdriver or piece of flat stock.
The first photo, if I'm interpreting it right, looks like an internal ring like the ones that you'll see holding in half-shafts in a front-drive car transaxle. Thos typically mate with a ring grooove in the half-axle that is chamfered on both dies. The shafts are meant to be driven out with a dead-blow hammer (something I did, twice, in my 1987 Mazda), and they're not meant to be removed unless they're destroyd -- in whcih case you can pick out the pieces with needle-nose pliers.
--
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It looks to me like you could grind a tool like a flat blade screwdriver to either fit the space snugly or wedge it in, and twist it sideways to expand the ring. I have a bundle of 3/16" steel gas/TIG welding rod that I forge and grind such custom tools out of. I make a round or tee loop on the handle end. The rod breaks without bending if notched half way with a cold chisel or hardy.
I recently found that the shield retaining snap ring on a 608 ZZ ball bearing is beveled =/ /= on the ends and a safety pin point will lift out the undercut end to clean the bearing or swap in a rubber seal.
-jsw
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    Really big images -- took forever to download.
    Three sets of hands. One holding a straight blade screwdriver against one end of the ring, another holding and driving a second straight-blade screwdriver against the other end, and a third set of hands pushing a smaller straight-blade driver between the pin and the middle arc of the ring as the first two screwdrivers push it a bit clear. Once the smaller screwdriver is in place, shift one of the other two to just beside it and use it as a lever to move that middle of the ring up clear of the groove. Then walk another screwdriver around from there towards one end of the ring. Once that end is pried clear of the end of the pin, walk the other screwdriver around until the rest of the ring is free of the groove.
    Be sure to wear safety glasses, because the ring can snap off and move at high speed.
    Putting it back involves just two screwdrivers. One holds one end down at the groove level, and the other walks around pushing down the ring as you go, until the circle is completed and it snaps into place.

    You have above what I would do.
    Good luck,         DoN.
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wrote:

Pretty much - looks like a hole in one end of the ring? There IS a tool for "Hermaphrodite" snap rings - pin goes in the hole, then forcing against the blunt end, the ring is expanded and can be lifted off. Problem would be finding one.

Putting it back together goes a lot easier woth a new standard snap-ring that you will not have to fight with next time

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First of all, apologies for the lack of scale; the wheel axle is about 3/4", the pump link pin about 1/2". I should have put a dime in the photos.
I tried a simple expanding snap ring tool on the wheel and the taper of the ring end slipped off the tool with the force I could muster holding it in. Maybe a tool ground thin enough to go into the ring groove would find a ledge to catch on....
The biggest issue seems to be keeping the tool(s) from slipping off the ends of the ring. That looks difficult in the case of the pump.
Thanks for everyone's counsel, I'll re-read in the morning and have another go at it. If nothing else works a thin cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool will part the rings with minimal damage to the rods.
bob prohaska
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wrote:

You could try clamping half the ring in place with Vise-Grips and bashing the exposed end with a punch to bend or break it.
This is a candidate to modify with thin prying jaws. https://www.arc-zone.com/expand-o-pliers-pe?gclid IaIQobChMIqYyBvp3F1gIVzGSGCh01XAigEAUYAiABEgKna_D_BwE
I have a small collection of similar automotive valve spring, brake and panel clip expansion pliers but none of them would fit a small spring clip. My plan is to modify a tool with a screw adjuster for the task to leave both hands free.
-jsw
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 02:07:50 -0000 (UTC)

This is one of the tools used for rings like that:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
I have one so would give it a try buy it looks like one side of the Wheel ring is too buggered up for it to hold now. The gap on the Pump ring is much too wide for it. Nice tool to have around for such stuff though...
I would try Jim's method. Vise grip to keep one side from moving while pushing, hammering with an old screwdriver or punch on the other. I've done that before, it works. And Don's method works too but like he mentioned, you almost need three hands to do it :)
--
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Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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wrote:

You reminded me that I have one of those, hiding among the spark plug boot pullers. It's a Cal-Van no. 268. -jsw
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Mine is essentially the same, but made by KD tools

Holding the retaining ring tool in the gap with a pair of water pump (channelok) pliers hooked over the opposite side of the axle gave enough purchase to spread the snap ring out of the groove. Once thus sprung, it pried out with a screwdriver and I put a bevel on the ends of the ring to forestall ever needing to remove it again...

Those rings turned out to be soft; they pressed off the pin using a pair of pliers on each leg. I didn't expect that, at all.
The hydraulic unit is now out of the jack and draining. The next obstacle looks like it'll be the packing nuts. They're threaded sleeves with paired notches in the ends around the pump and cylinder pistons. It shouldn't be too hard to make a wrench for the cylinder packing nut from a length of pipe. The pump piston has an eye which is bigger than the packing nut at the end, which complicates matters.
Thanks to everyone!
bob prohaska
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wrote:

Water pipe and malleable iron fittings are very handy to make custom tools but also quite soft. Music wire from hobby stores can be ground to the shape of wrench teeth and pressed into holes in the pipe.
I've had good results with hook and pin spanner wrenches made from the 3/16" steel welding rod I mentioned. It's relatively hard and the largest size I can bend cold in a bench vise. I hammered the end of a piece flat to make a sharp-ended pry bar that's survived hard use. A 'U' of it with the ends turned in to fit into opposed drilled holes makes a good handle for wrenches etc machined from drill rod such as the screw-together grommet press I made to repair shelter tarps in place.
-jsw
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wrote in message ...

I needed a fork fitting to attach a removeable towing handle to a trailer tongue jack wheel. A pipe tee with slots for steel straps milled in the opposing ends was perfect for the task. The straps that attach to the jack's axle ends are bolted together through the tee. I can screw in a long pipe handle to maneuver the trailer (a modified shop crane) and remove the pipe after coupling the crane trailer to my tractor. A short pipe screwed into the tee keeps the fork from dropping when the jack wheel is raised.
-jsw
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Indeed, I just bought some scraps of iron pipe and am building a tool now to remove the lift cylinder packing. It's easy, because the rod is straight and does not overhang the packing nut.
The pump is a different kettle of fish:
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pumpgland.jpg
(apologies, it's another obese image) With the pump piston in place, the eye overhangs the piston packing nut completely. The outer nut can be installed separately, so a socket-style wrench has a chance, especially if it's supported by a pilot.

Does anybody know the correct name for wrenches to fit gland nuts like those shown in the photo? They're not hook, nor pin. "Claw spanner" is the best term I could think of, but it isn't fruitful in a web search.
For now the plan is to make a socket-style wrench out of pipe, then split it with a saw and fit it around the piston as a pilot. A hose clamp to secure, and pliers to tighten. It's almost worthy of Rube Goldberg.
8-)
bob prohaska
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wrote:

I made wrenches for similar end-notched retaining rings on the salvaged cylinders for my front end loader from flat steel the thickness of the slots. Just cut a hole for the ID, cut across the hole somewhat past the diameter and bend the ends down into lugs that fit the slots. Bending is easier if you make the lugs long for better grip and grind them to length afterwards.
-jsw
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On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 04:55:28 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska

This isn't helpful? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spanner
Google has changed. Used to be that Brits called wrenches "spanners" and in SAE-land, we called a bar with two pins a "spanner" or "pin spanner", while I don't recall what the tube type was called, but it, too, was a pin spanner of sorts.

As opposed to using the correct diameter pipe, eh? Split, it won't hold radial tension, unless it's only split on one side (the least amount) and the hose clamp is down right next to the nut. Better yet, weld a nut or spacer which fits over the center part (what the hell were we working on, again?) Oh, just looked at the pic. Where's your BAS? Big Ass Screwdriver? That'll spin right out of there.
Someone else had it right when suggesting black pipe. Find the diameter, grind away all but two pins on the end, drill a hole through the back end to fit a phillips screwdriver and you have your tool forever. Be sure to give the pins a slight taper so they're dovetails which won't slip out of the depressions in the nut.
Alternatively, grind a piece of 1/8 or 1/4" bar stock to fit the span since you have a 345-degree uninterrupted field.
====================================| | ===========================| | | | |=========|

What's with the "almost" bit? ;) For one-offs, I've been known to hold two drift punches with a pair of Channel-lock pliers, and spin dem puppies right off.
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On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:18:42 -0400

I've got one of those. It isn't very heavy duty. Works nice on 4.5 inch angle grinders though...
I would try a large chisel, like a brick or stone masons. Turn it with a large crescent wrench or vise grips. Might get a large washer to work in that slot too with some grinding. Lots of choices, different ways to attack that one.
I've thought about modifying a large crescent wrench for spanner jobs. Drill a hole sideways through each jaw near their tips. Maybe 3/16 inch to start with. Push some suitable pins in the holes and adjust the wrench to fit your work. It probably wouldn't hurt the wrench, still work okay. Haven't had anything quite that hard to remove yet...
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